It Just Keeps Getting Worse…

With every report on the anti-Prop 8 protests in California, things get worse and more shocking. Bill O’Reilly reported–with video footage–on a protest that deliberately and shockingly disrupted a church service at Mount Hope Church near Lansing, Michigan. It included one lesbian couple running to the front of the church, kissing, and running throughout the church with their friends, tossing hundreds of fliers as they chanted, “it’s o-kay…to be gay!” Watch the clip and see for yourself:

Newsflash, guys: this is NOT cool. You’re not winning any converts in their crowd any more than they’re winning any in yours. The more you act like this, the more they’re resolved to defeat you.

Even worse, Sunday night saw a group that always does outreach on 18th street in the Castro neighborhood (the gay neighborhood in San Francisco) was viciously and brutally attacked in the worst hate crime committed yet. I found it at Michelle Malkin’s site. These people were calmly having an outdoor service when a large group of homosexuals, convinced they were protesting the No on 8 crowd, went so far as to steal jackets and bibles right off the worshipers. One woman was hit upside the head with her own bible, knocked to the ground, and kicked, while one man was all but molested and another had a gay man look him in the face and say, “I am going to kill you.” Police in riot gear had to escort them back to their van, even with the crowd following and chanting, swearing to follow them “all the way home”:

I’ll post a vidblog about this on Sunday. For now, I’d like to know what all of you think about this. With the protests getting worse by the minute, I’m afraid someone is going to end up either seriously hurt or even dead, and the gay community is going to crucify itself by refusing to acknowledge that we have to get a rein on this thing. I think it got out of hand long ago.

What say you?


22 thoughts on “It Just Keeps Getting Worse…

  1. These people are crazy. Insane. No one rioted in Connecticut when the judge said they could now be married. You didn’t see straight people protesting that. Why can’t they just leave well enough alone. The people voted. Leave it at that.

  2. Watched both vids. They are begging to be defeated again. And it will be well deserved. Shameful behavior. And my friends think I am the crazy one…

  3. They would deserve it, and the rest of us will pay for it. I can think of a number of foul names to call them which do not bear repetition here. I never thought I’d say I feel hate for another person, but I’m beginning to genuinely hate this group. It’s not just emotional, either.

  4. Sigh….how many of these thugs grew up and came of age in a time and place where there was no Will & Grace on TV? How many of them grew up and came of age in a palce with no laws to protect them from discrimination based on sexual orientation? How many of them grew up in a time and place where the police would blame you if you were gay bashed?

    I know what it is like to live that way. I’ve lived that way. Oppression, hatred, intolerance, bigotry, homophobia? These are not concepts to me. They are real.

    Fortunately things have changed for the better and things are much better :-). I am very appreciative and thankful for this change.

    This same sex marriage defeat is not the end of the world. It is not even close. It is not the beginning of the end. There won’t be swastikas on every street corner and box cars full of people heading for the desert either. It’s far from that.

    So to all you protesting troublemakers:

    Experience some real hate, real oppression, real bigotry and then go out and cause trouble. Reading about such things in a book doesn’t cut it.

    If you have lived the life I’ve lived, then try remembering how good things still are and how bad then can become becuase of your actions; not the actions of someone else.

  5. You know what it represents is that the extremists of life are brainless.

    Extreme whackos like this will portray all Christians as lunatics.

    Phelps-like Christians will then portray the entire gay community as extreme as the crazies above.

    I’m proud of all of us here who have a voice of reason. The reason we become enraged is because we’re rejecting the extremism from both sides.

    This; my friends, is how the media and liberals will survive – by re-defining what it means to be an “extremist.”

    More attention; however, will be paid to Ann Coulter and her statements than on real extremists like this causing the most damage to our national fabric.

  6. Ballot Measure 8 is a lesson in irony.

    Anti same sex marriage forces did not have the votes to win. But then came Barack Obama and 1,000,000 people in CA voted for Obama and voted against same sex marriage. Never mind Obama instructed his voters to vote in favor of same sex marriage.

    At the end of the day, same sex marriage was defeated by so called Liberal voters. They, not the so called hateful conservatives, delivered the death blow.

    If these protestors want to go after people then go after their “own kind” because their own kind did them in.

    If you remove those 1,000,000 votes from Obama’s tally then he still wins CA easily. If you remove those 1,000,000 votes from Measure 8, then Measure 8 is easily defeated.

    Liberals were shot with their own gun. Ironic isn’t it?

  7. I just don’t get how the anti-Prop 8 protesters justify using intolerance in their quest for tolerance. How do they not what they’re doing?

  8. I really appreciate what you said here, and I have been writing on Prop. 8 on my blog, as well. The thing that is so bizarre is how this has taken on a life-and-death importance. I mean, as an illustration: I hold the opinion, strongly, that abortion is the taking of a human life. By any measure, that is a much more grave issue. But my convictions in that regard do not occupy my whole life; I can rest easy in my own conscience, even though the law is completely against me on that issue. Why can’t the gay community accept Proposition 8 the same way? No one is telling them they have to agree with the law, but do homosexual individuals really need the law’s validation in order to be comfortable with who they are? After all, it is not as though California has denied most of the rights that marriage bestows.
    I am tired of being told I “hate” people because I voted for Prop. 8. I hold no animus toward anyone who is gay; my love and affection are not conditional on someone’s sexual orientation, and I hope (and know, at least with those of my acquaintance) others don’t make their affection toward me conditional on my political views or my sexual orientation. If we cannot agree to at least be civil in our disagreements, we have no hope for a strong America, no matter whose views prevail.

  9. “…but do homosexual individuals really need the law’s validation in order to be comfortable with who they are? ”

    Some think they do and they think when they get legal validation they will like and love themselves as they are. Sadly, that does not work.

    I came of age in a very homophobic area. In spite of that, I loved myself as I was and that has never changed. I did not need laws to feel good about myself. It is nice have laws that protect me. But, I love myself as I am because I am supposed to; not because a law protects me.

    I live in the San Francisco Bay Area and I have dated and known very self hating gay men who enjoy many important legal protections. If you hate yourself, then changing a law won’t make you like yourself. Self esteem and change start with you.

  10. Exactly, John.

    Like John, I grew up in a homophobic area–the Deep South. Texas is my home state, but my family also spent time in Louisiana and Alabama. Just because I was less feminine than other girls, I was accused regularly of being a lesbian and can’t remember how many times I was beaten to a pulp. I vehemently denied being gay then.

    Since coming out when I was 24, I’ve become a far more content person. No law is going to give me any more validation than I had before; I had to grow into it and learn to accept that part of myself on my own. And John is very right in that there are a great number of self-loathing homosexuals out there. I think they’re the ones we see the most.

  11. I think they’re the ones we see the most.

    Which is, I think, a great deal of the problem. I’m truly blessed by having a broad spectrum of friends online and off, straight and gay, immigrant and American born, and from a variety of cultural backgrounds (and I do believe that “Texan” is as much a cultural thing as being German or Swedish).

    People who aren’t exposed (knowingly) to the wide spectrum of wonderful people in addition to the angry over-the-top people think that being gay = Folsom St. year round.

    These protests aren’t helping that perception at all.

  12. A quote from the first video:

    “The opposite of tolerance is tyranny.”

    A quote from Voltaire:

    “I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.”

    Supposedly for the next six weeks we are supposed to have weekend same sex marriage protests nationwide. Given the philosophy of Voltaire is not going to win out, one can hope these protests die a quick death.

  13. Thank you for these thoughtful comments and people I would be more than willing to stand with. I grew up Mormon and I have family and friends that are both homosexual and bisexual and I have and do love them dearly. Tolerance is our only path together. Take care everyone.

  14. “The opposite of tolerance is tyranny.”

    Since when did “tolerance” come to mean “celebrating”? Seriously – I’ve seen this quote at anti-GTMO protests, too. It’s ridiculous.

    If you tolerate something, you let it be even if you don’t like it. There’s no “like” in tolerance. When did that stupid idea surface? You don’t have to like something to tolerate it. You don’t have to celebrate it. You don’t have to act like it’s beautiful and wonderful.

    You just don’t viciously physically attack or make it otherwise impossible for that person to lead life.

    So, it seems here the anti-tolerance people are the ones running around disrupting church services.

    Anyway mel, I’m so totally impressed by how on top of this you are and how you’ve been breaking down the story. You’re awesome!

  15. Something dawned on me last night around this issue. As a community we have to mindful of when we are being set up and manipulated.

    If a church group goes to The Castro, then don’t you think they are hoping to cause trouble so they can use it for propaganda purposes? We have to watch out for that sort of thing.

    That woman in Palm Springs who was harassed by that angry mob; did she go there hoping that would happen to her?

    I don’t condone the mob mentaility that occurred in Palm Springs and The Castro. Our response to such things was very wrong. Such responses are never right. It’s also far worse when someone sets us up and we fall for it.

  16. Here’s the thing, John…and I do hear you, I also agree…the church group that was attacked in The Castro is there every single Sunday. It’s been a staple there for a long time. What I failed to mention was that the crowd that attacked them was convinced they were there for a Prop 8 support rally by a man who sees them every week–and greeted the leader of the group that night with a hug and a kiss.

    The Phelps clan regularly tries to goad people into attacking them and they brag about it, because to them it means “more reward in heaven.” Outside the true crazies, though, I’ve seen very few people setting up to be persecuted. Right now, I don’t think any of them would want to.

  17. Mel, I did not know that about The Castro group. I do agree this is not the time to go into a group of angry gay people and hope they can be goaded into getting violent.

    As you said, is someone going to get hurt or killed? The weekend is upon us and there are suppose to be six more weeks of nationwide protests. I hope these protests wither away for everyone’s safety.

  18. I hope so, too, for all our sakes.

    AFW, you make a very valid point. What they’re after isn’t tolerance, they want complete acceptance, no less. That’s all this is about. Acceptance isn’t going to come through shocking behavior and it seems that they are really just out to shock everyone into accepting them.

  19. I don’t think they even want complete acceptance, mel. They seem to want the world to stand up and say, “You’re choices are so wonderful! You’re so wonderful! You’re so awesome! We all adore you!”

    I think John in CA has had it right all along – they can’t accept themselves and they have to constantly hear how everyone else thinks they are wonderful.

  20. I voted for prop 8. However, when I am in contact with gay people (fellow students, friends, celebrities) what sways me is seeing them going about their normal lives and also seeing them being loving with their partner/children/family. Then it makes me question my beliefs. I still think I’ll never totally change my mind, but I have a lot more love and compassion when there is true dialogue rather than protests.

    Also, I think it wasn’t prudent for that group to go into SF and do their thing. Even if they’ve done that for a long time, you know people are going to be pissed. Is it really about God? Or is it about your ego? It gives Christians a bad rap.

  21. Hey Drea916, I think it is great you have compassion for gay people, we should have compassion for all people but personally speaking, as a true follower of Christ, I will never question the belief anymore. The more I researched homosexuality and the death and the psychological problems and the abuse, the more I came to believe we were letting our brothers and sisters down allowing this lifestyle. To me it is no different than giving an alcoholic alcohol and telling him to embrace his alcoholism because he is such a loser anyway, he can’t do anything about it. He was born that way. It is not about hating gays it is about saying, “I think you are worth saving and I am going to do everything in my power to help you overcome this because I love you.”

    That being said, when my Church (Mormon) was being attacked, when my Prophet was being sent hate mail, when my friend was being persecuted for giving 100 dollars to Yes on 8, my first reaction was “Okay you want some gay bashing, I will show you some gay bashing. You want to do this, bring it on baby!” Thankfully, God watches over fools and children because it would’ve been a fool thing to do. I would be no different then the ones I was fighting against. I am glad cooler heads prevailed in my case, but if the gay community keeps pushing this they will not. And people will get hurt and whatever empathy has been brought out in straight people will quickly be squashed. And it will be your community that suffers, not ours. I just hope these militant gay activists wake up and realize the detriment to their own cause they are causing and will back down. Because despite my initial reaction, I really don’t want anyone getting hurt.

    Lastly, I just wanted to add, I am glad to see there are those in your community who are not swayed by false equality arguments in regards to marriage. My son’s father is gay and he voted yes on Prop 8. Someone said he was a pathetic excuse for a gay man for doing so. Ah yes, that must be the well known tolerance gays are always talking about.

  22. “Because despite my initial reaction, I really don’t want anyone getting hurt.”

    Neither do I. What galls me is the LDS Church did not break any laws by doing what it did regarding Measure 8. If the gay world wants civil rights then it has to respect the civil rights of others too.

    As for your view on being gay, I politely disagree with them. We can agree to disagree and be civil about it.

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