It Wasn’t A Twist On Words…

During the Presidential campaign last year, a lot of people derided Sarah Palin for supposedly saying “I can see Russia from my house!” Trouble was, she didn’t say any such thing; Tina Fey did on Saturday Night Live:

And when I pointed out Barack Obama claiming he’d visited 57 states, someone tried to claim it was a play on words.  They said he was making a reference to the primaries.  Here we have it, from the horse’s mouth, AFTER he thinks before speaking:

We just elected this guy to be our President.  Obama and the Democrats are talking about universal government-run health care, such as they have in Japan, Canada, Great Britain and Spain.  Ask some of the people there what they think.  You have regular chances if you live up North–Canadians come into the US regularly for health care that they can’t get in their country’s universal health care system.  Need a transplant?  You’re screwed.  Just this week, a man on a bicycle was badly injured in an accident in Japan.  When paramedics arrived, they were able to stabilize him, but they spent an hour sitting at the scene trying to haggle with hospitals on who would take him.  Fourteen different hospitals turned them down, and by the time they got the victim to a hospital, he had deteriorated to the point that he couldn’t be resuscitated.  Is that the kind of situation we want here in America?

I also gotta ask, if paying taxes is so patriotic, then why are so many of Obama’s cabinet nominees being challenged on the basis that they were caught NOT paying their taxes?  First, Tom Daschle was nominated for secretary of health and human services, despite the fact that he’d accepted hundreds of thousands of dollars from healthcare industry bigwigs who stand to profit from the right person in that position.  Then it comes out that he failed to pay taxes for a car and personal chauffeur that were donated to him by a political supporter.  THEN, when he came out and said, “sorry, it was a flub and I’ve paid it,” it comes out that there were MORE taxes he skipped out on, so to avoid any further microscoping of his finances he backed down from the nomination.  Tim Geithner, Obama’s nominee for Treasury Secretary, was so meticulous he “flubbed” to the tune of $43,000 on his self-employment taxes.  He finally coughed up about $25,000 of it after his nomination.  Where was the Republican party when he was being voted on?  Oh, yeah, they were drooling over him.  NOW, Nancy Killefer, Obama’s nominee for Chief Performance Officer, has withdrawn from her nomination after it’s been discovered that she had been slapped with a tax lien on her home for failure to pay taxes for unemployment compensation–for her maids.  I love elite Democrat patriotism.

And today, via Michelle Malkin, we have Nancy Pelosi, the beloved Democrat Speaker of the House, giving us the most depressing news ever:

Wow.  Way to Know Your Power, Nancy.  Five hundred million jobs a month?  That comes out to six billion jobs lost annually.  Trouble is, there’s only two billion people in the United States–that includes the disabled and children who don’t work.  Oops.  They’re just numbers, right?

Don’t forget, according to Joe Biden, JOBS is a three-letter word.

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93 thoughts on “It Wasn’t A Twist On Words…

  1. LOL

    Don’t forget that Joe Biden also thought that FDR gave a speech during the Great Depression on TV when he wasn’t President and there were not TV’s yet invented.

    And today, President Obama responded to Republicans fighting to cut the insane pork from the stimulus by saying: “In the past two days, I have heard criticisms of this plan that, frankly, echo the very same failed theories that helped lead us into this crisis in the first place.”

    Sounds like someone is still using a speechwriter hired during the primary.

    He’s President now, can’t he at least be specific with what parts he’s criticizing them on? Which specific theories? Nonsense!

    The Community Reinventment Act did not occur by Republicans in the last eight years, sorry Obama.

    But, I did manage to watch eight small businesses go under since your election-win. Think that has anything to do with it?

  2. *Snicker*

    Yeah, I remember that one. Gaffetastic.

    The failed theories that got us here began with, as you point out, the Community Reinvestment Act. Requiring banks to take on risky debt for the sole purpose of making sure nobody is ever discriminated against is a political-correctness boondoggle that is only deepening our situation. The Fair Lending Act only made it worse. If someone is on public assistance, they should NOT have a credit card!

    According to the FLA, though, you cannot discriminate in the lending process on the basis of pretty much anything. Saying “no” to someone based on things like welfare, income status, unemployment is discrimination these days. And we wonder which policies failed.

  3. Regarding national health care…

    If it is so great in the UK why do women in the UK travel to to India or Thailand to deliver their babies? Answer? They don’t get sent home two minutes after giving birth.

    Ever watch the TV show EastEnders? Yes it is a soap opera. But if the hospital scenes are indicative of what British hospitals really look like then let me die in the streets!

    Last year a woman from Canada drove with her husband to Montana to give birth to identical quadruplet girls. All the hospitals in Calgary were full up so they headed south. Wow! You go Canada!!! BTW, they did not drive a couple of miles across the border. They drove into central Montana, a distance of several hundred miles.

    If this nation gets national health care then two things better not change:

    Access to care.
    Physician income potential.

    I don’t want to wait 3 to 9 months for heart bypass surgery.

    If I am studying to become a doctor and incurring large student loans, then I either want the income potential to pay those loans off quickly or I want the cost to become a doctor to shrink by gargantuan amounts. I’ll gladly be a doctor with reduced income potential if the cost of becoming and being a doctor drops.

  4. “During the Presidential campaign last year, a lot of people derided Sarah Palin for supposedly saying “I can see Russia from my house!” Trouble was, she didn’t say any such thing”

    You’re splitting semantic hairs here. Her exact quote was “you can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska”. You must excuse a sketch comedy show for exaggerating for the sake of comedy. Plus, the reason she was “derided” was because the context of the quote. She was asked what insights she had into Russian actions (given the recent hype of the Georgia-Russia conflict by the McCain campaign), and that was the answer she gave. She absolutely deserved to be poked fun at. You would never say something like that.

    “And when I pointed out Barack Obama claiming he’d visited 57 states, someone tried to claim it was a play on words.  They said he was making a reference to the primaries.”

    It might be a play on words, he may have been tired from visiting all those states, and he just may be dumb (although you’d have a tough time making that argument), but here’s the difference in pointing out people’s screw ups: Palin demonstrated, on more than a few occasions, her basic lack of knowledge of the duties for which she was campaigning. Case in point: she was asked for her opinion, before she was selected to be VP candidate, on the position, and she answered “I can’t answer that question until someone answers, for me, what is it that the VP does every day?”. In the vice presidential debate, she was asked about this, and claimed that she was joking (which she clearly was not). Okay, nice deflection, can’t blame her. Then, she goes on national television to field written questions from third graders. Here’s one of the questions:

    This time she was detailed in her ignorance. The Vice President is not in charge of the Senate, nor do they “get in there with the Senators” to create policy. The constitution is pretty explicit in the duties of the President of the Senate; you cast a tie breaking vote, that’s it. Now, compare that to Obama’s 57 state blunder. If Obama was asked, straight forward, how many states were in the union, and he responded by saying 57, I’d be a little alarmed, but I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and say it was a slip up. Are we to take as literal everything that every politician says, regardless of the nature of what’s being said? Let’s dissect this than, shall we?:

    Are we to assume, as you have in the case of Obama, that McCain was bat crap crazy and viewed America a big POW camp? Come on, now…

    “I also gotta ask, if paying taxes is so patriotic, then why are so many of Obama’s cabinet nominees being challenged on the basis that they were caught NOT paying their taxes?”

    I think a much better question is: why isn’t anyone pointing out the hypocrisy of Republicans for focusing on petty bullshit like this when we’re in the middle of an economic shit storm that they created, yet they don’t even bat a eye when so many corporations in this country pay zero fucking taxes, and very much on purpose! Why is that? Why is paying personal taxes so important only during confirmation hearings of Democrats?

    “Trouble is, there’s only two billion people in the United States”

    Oh, I really hope that was a bad attempt at sarcasm. Of course, now that I’ve pointed it out, you’ll go ahead and say it was…

  5. I ask again, Robert, why cannot Obama now tell us what he means when he says things that sound like he’s trying to win an election.

    HE WON THE ELECTION. HE’S THE PRESIDENT, NOW!

    So when he says stupid things like: “In the past two days, I have heard criticisms of this plan that, frankly, echo the very same failed theories that helped lead us into this crisis in the first place,” why can’t he give us an explanation on what the hell he means? All the Republicans (and some Democrats, even) are doing is making sure some of the stupid pork is removed from this before it passes.

    Are you honestly settling for generalities now when our economy is in the toilet and you are out of a job?

    Is being a liberal and defending idiocy coming from someone you spent so much time and energy getting elected your first priority? What about the fella out of a job right now?

    Why not give the pork to your industry if we have to give anything at all? This idiot stimulus package he wants passed addresses special interests far more than it addresses putting people back to work.

    I don’t agree with any bailouts. Our own President who at least kept us safe for a long time let us down with advocating support for the first one. That first one was supposed to help banks so they would continue to loan money, remember? Guess what? Nobody is loaning money with our tax dollars we shipped because there was no oversight among those in Congress of what kind of stipulations there would be. Now, we’re about to do it again except it’s going to special interest groups in large part.

    You’re so hellbent on being a liberal and defending Obambi than you are at caring what the hell you’re going to do for work.

    Obambi has a nice government job, Dascle tried getting one, Biden has a nice one, too.

    Sarah Palin used $30K in per diem because she sold a jet worth $2.3M. But your answer to that will be that she did something corrupt in all of that. She used her government job to help the real workers of Alaska, the real taxpayers – PEOPLE LIKE YOU.

    At this point, if you aren’t working for the government, you’re screwed. So they know what you’re thinking – why not collect from them anyway?

    An IRS auditor came in here trying to audit someone for tax year 3 years ago. The taxpayer had a great year that year and of course the auditor found that all income was reported properly (of course it was, I did it…;-) ). But the government is going to audit people based on income from two years ago thinking they might recover money to put into the Treasury. But now in 2008, they are all reporting massive losses, have no income, and are selling off assets to pay their bills and laying off employees.

    And because of the liberal bankruptcy act, there won’t be anything the government can do to recover money. So in the end, money is now going out that has no guarantee of a return. There is no money from current situations in the private sector to be put in.

    More Americans will lose their jobs and we won’t have any taxes to pay in at all.

    Then what?

    Are you going to do what Warren Buffett suggested when he won your heart that income earned in a prior year sitting in an investment account should be taxed again even though it had been earned and taxed in a previous year?

    Palin owned small businesses and graduated a modest college and was made fun of horribly by people like you even though she beat odds, raised a good family, and worked for the true better of the people.

    I sincerely hope Obambi is prepared to hand you a miracle because from now until 2012, the effectiveness of your insults to Sarah Palin are going to wear off.

    They are not like oatmeal and won’t stick, she is not in the national spotlight because she isn’t the President. Turn to your own now and for all of our sakes, please make sure he’s doing his job instead of talking like he’s right in the middle of a primary with talking points written by a speech-writer.

  6. I love how Obama decried the “age of fear” while campaigning because of people’s genuine concerns about terrorism. So much for shaking that off–now he’s saying if we don’t pass that all-pork Generational Theft Act, we’ll fall into a recession we’ll never recover from.

    I have a couple of pointers: first of all, UN-DO the Community Reinvestment Act and Fair Lending Act. Cut ’em loose. Write law that doesn’t require any financial institution to take on risky debt. Allow the free market to work. Then, let the banks that drove their stock rates up overnight only to see them fall as suddenly because of irresponsible lending lie in the beds they made for themselves. Not all of the banks were adversely affected. There are at least two financial institutions–I’m not allowed to say which ones–that did NOT ask for bailout money, but were told to take it anyway because of the way the bailout was set up. There are banks that would have saved us, and those banks should be allowed to flourish because their CEO’s were responsible and level-headed.

  7. “I think a much better question is: why isn’t anyone pointing out the hypocrisy of Republicans for focusing on petty bullshit like this when we’re in the middle of an economic shit storm that they created, yet they don’t even bat a eye when so many corporations in this country pay zero fucking taxes, and very much on purpose! Why is that? ”

    Robert, Robert, Robert…

    Self employed people, partnerships, corporations do not pay taxes. They often remit taxes to the government. But what they remit is not their money.

    The consumers of their goods and services pay the taxes. When business taxes (including corporate taxes) are increased, this cost is passed on to the consumers of the services and products businesses sell.

    My sister cuts hair for a living. She has her salon station rent to pay. She also has other expenses like supplies and equipment. She also has to pay taxes on her profit. She is self employed.

    Every year she sits down with me and we determine who much money she wants to take home after all taxes and other expenses have been paid. We start with the bottom line number and work in reverse.

    Eventually we reach a top line number. That number is sales or revenue. That’s the number she has to collect from her customers in order to meet her bottom line number.

    So, when people go and get a haircut from my sister, they, not my sister, pay her taxes!!! If my sister’s taxes go up, then she will sit down with me and we’ll start at the bottom line and work our way back to a new revenue rate that accomdates her higher tax situation.

    So Robert, taxing businesses of any kind is the exact same thing as taxing yourself.

    I am not knocking you specifically Robert but I am amazed at the number of people who do not get this.

  8. Excuse me, Robert, I meant to say two hundred million, but I would have been wrong there, too. As of July 2008, the population of the USA was 304 million. And yes, I was aware that the SNL skit was a take-off from what she’d actually said. I actually thought the skit was hilarious–I nearly wet my pants laughing at it–so don’t take it so seriously. MY point was that people heard the SNL quote and took it as gospel.

    And please give me specific information on corporations that pay nothing to the IRS. Every corporation in America is required to pay taxes. Those that aren’t based here but make money here also have to pay taxes. I have yet to see a single corporation succeed at not paying any taxes at all.

    I’ll have to address the videos later because I can’t view them on the computer I’m using. I am not suggesting we take everything every politician says literally, but it strikes me as more than just a little disingenuous that you’re so protective of Obama, Pelosi and Biden when just a couple of years ago you were all over Bush like white on rice for his verbal flubs.

    I’d also like to see you point out which members of the Bush cabinet were caught not paying their taxes. Specifics, please.

  9. “So when he says stupid things like: “In the past two days, I have heard criticisms of this plan that, frankly, echo the very same failed theories that helped lead us into this crisis in the first place”

    That wasn’t stupid, that was brilliant! He also reminded you that he won, and he has a mandate for change. He was telling those obstructionists in your party that you guys fucked this up, and now you want to fix it by doing the same things? That’s insane.

    “Is being a liberal and defending idiocy coming from someone you spent so much time and energy getting elected your first priority? What about the fella out of a job right now?”

    Why the hell do you think this package needs to get passed? I called Jon Kyl and John McCain yesterday and expressed a desire for them to not play politics and get this done. No one needs republican obstruction, and I speak for the country as a whole. Those crackpots want more tax cuts for the rich. IT DOESN’T WORK! This whole nonsensical trickle down economic theory has never worked, why the hell do they think it will now?

    “Why not give the pork to your industry if we have to give anything at all? This idiot stimulus package he wants passed addresses special interests far more than it addresses putting people back to work.”

    What’s pork to you Steve? I have a feeling that any government spending is pork in your estimation. Your ridiculous notions of a free market will not get us out of this, it’s what got us into this, and more of the same will not miraculously have a different effect.

    “That first one was supposed to help banks so they would continue to loan money, remember? Guess what? Nobody is loaning money with our tax dollars we shipped because there was no oversight among those in Congress of what kind of stipulations there would be”

    And just how much bitching did you toss in the direction of that president, or his secretary of the treasury? Paulson and Bush wrote the provisions providing for no oversight into that bill. Speaking of, you’re “mr. no regulation”, now all of a sudden it’s important to you? Why the hell weren’t you on our side when we were screaming about this?

    “You’re so hellbent on being a liberal and defending Obambi than you are at caring what the hell you’re going to do for work.”

    You truly have lost your grip on reality. Don’t you see that your ideology has failed, and now it’s up to us to set things right? You have defended a man, who for eight years, chipped away at the foundation of this country, and who bought into the policies that have proven to be a failure. Yet now you want us to believe that somehow you people should have another shot at it? Come on! You had your chance. You fucked it up, now we have a mess to clean up. So if that means a complete reversal of the last eight years, great. Fantastic. We need something diametrically opposed to that which hasn’t worked. I’m all for it.

    “Sarah Palin used $30K in per diem because she sold a jet worth $2.3M. But your answer to that will be that she did something corrupt in all of that. She used her government job to help the real workers of Alaska, the real taxpayers – PEOPLE LIKE YOU.”

    How did she do that, Steve? She did it by doing the exact thing you accused Obama of during the campaign. She doled out $1,700 in dividends from oil revenue. Kind of sounds like socialism…
    And per diem pay is supposed to be used for travel on official state business, not for driving from an Anchorage office to her house. It has nothing to do with any jet being sold, so stop trying to paint the welfare queen from Wasilla as a champion of reform.

    “I sincerely hope Obambi is prepared to hand you a miracle because from now until 2012, the effectiveness of your insults to Sarah Palin are going to wear off.”

    There would be no need to insult her if she kept her mouth shut. For someone who blames the media for her idiocy, she sure has been cozying up to them after her loss…

    “They are not like oatmeal and won’t stick, she is not in the national spotlight because she isn’t the President. Turn to your own now and for all of our sakes, please make sure he’s doing his job instead of talking like he’s right in the middle of a primary with talking points written by a speech-writer.”

    What? You guys are the ones bringing her up. You’re the one with a giant banner at the top of your page worshipping her. If you don’t want her mentioned, you should probably start in your own house…

  10. “The consumers of their goods and services pay the taxes. When business taxes (including corporate taxes) are increased, this cost is passed on to the consumers of the services and products businesses sell.”

    So if tax rates go up on corporations, they pass that along to us, regardless of the fact that they aren’t paying that tax. That’s okay to you? I love the right wing talking point about how we have the second highest corporate tax rate in the world, completely ignoring the fact that we have THE lowest collection rate on said taxes. Frankly, I am amazed by the amount of people who don’t get this…

  11. “And yes, I was aware that the SNL skit was a take-off from what she’d actually said. I actually thought the skit was hilarious–I nearly wet my pants laughing at it–so don’t take it so seriously. MY point was that people heard the SNL quote and took it as gospel.”

    Ah, I got you. Yeah, I kind of noticed that too. Personally, I fucking hate SNL. I think it hasn’t been funny in over a decade. The only stuff that made me laugh was them poking fun at Palin and also at Biden. But, I concur that some folks probably took that as fact instead of parody…

    “And please give me specific information on corporations that pay nothing to the IRS. Every corporation in America is required to pay taxes. Those that aren’t based here but make money here also have to pay taxes. I have yet to see a single corporation succeed at not paying any taxes at all.”

    I don’t know which companies specifically don’t pay, but this article gives statistics from the GAO:

    http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSN1249465620080812

    “I am not suggesting we take everything every politician says literally, but it strikes me as more than just a little disingenuous that you’re so protective of Obama, Pelosi and Biden when just a couple of years ago you were all over Bush like white on rice for his verbal flubs.”

    Well, first, if I seem protective of Obama, it’s because I see him doing so many things right, and that I feel your side is attacking him because his policies go against your specific set of principles. I can’t argue that Biden has been a gaffe machine at times, but I have never been protective of Nancy Pelosi. I suspect I’ll garner a new level of respect from you by telling you that I hate that bitch. I don’t know how the hell she rose to the speaker position (the same thing goes for that pussy, Reid, in the Senate too), and she won’t be missed by me if she should lose her seat next year. And for the record, I usually found Bush’s mangling of the English language a funny, albeit embarrassing quality. Is our children learning?…apparently not! ha…

  12. “I’d also like to see you point out which members of the Bush cabinet were caught not paying their taxes. Specifics, please.”

    Who cares? I’m much more concerned which of them can give a straight answer about what constitutes torture, or if the former CEO of Goldman Sachs is, in his role as treasury secretary, going to be giving a huge chunk of taxpayer dollars to Goldman Sachs. I would really love to turn over to FOX and see Sean Hannity talking about anything besides who didn’t realize that government wasn’t taxing payroll or that taxes needed to be paid on a car and driver. For fucks sake, give me some substance Hannity, you fucking douche nozzle…

  13. “So if tax rates go up on corporations, they pass that along to us, regardless of the fact that they aren’t paying that tax. That’s okay to you?”

    Huh? Let’s say Ford Motor company makes a financial profit of $1 billion dollars and thanks to tax loopholes Ford’s tax profit is zero.

    Now we close those loopholes and Ford has to pay 15% on $1 billion dollars. That is a tax of $150 million.

    To recoup this tax Ford raises the prices of the cars it sells. So I have to pay more for a car. So do you. Am I fine with that? No. Why?

    Let’s say the cost of that car I buy goes up by $100. That is $100 I can’t spend anywhere else. I can’t go and spend that money at the movie theater or the department store. I can’t put it in the bank to save.

    Ford will be happy I bought a car but the movie theater owner, the department store owner and the bank may not be so happy.

    Now let’s assume due to competitive pressure Ford can’t add $100 to the price of the car I’ll buy. If Ford does that, then I’ll buy a car from someone else. So will you. So to cover that $100 increase Ford closes down an assembly plant and lays 1,000 people off. Are you fine with that? I am not fine with that.

    Robert, taxes are an expense of running a business like all other expenses. They are not special expenses that get paid with special dollars that don’t spend anywhere else. Taxes like other expenses are paid by the consumers of a businesses products or services. There is no free lunch on this.

  14. “Robert, taxes are an expense of running a business like all other expenses. They are not special expenses that get paid with special dollars that don’t spend anywhere else. Taxes like other expenses are paid by the consumers of a businesses products or services. There is no free lunch on this.”

    You obviously haven’t been paying attention. I think everyone here understands the concept of shit rolling downhill, so to speak. That doesn’t negate the fact that a majority of corporations in this country don’t pay their taxes. So, while I appreciate the time you took to provide examples of how a company foots you with their bill, the fact remains…

  15. “That wasn’t stupid, that was brilliant! He also reminded you that he won, and he has a mandate for change. ”

    Yes it was stupid. That is the kind of thing you say when you are trying to get elected. He cannot give fancy speeches anymore while voting present. He wanted this job, now he has to do it. Even though you were enraged, Bush gave you straight answers like “I’m not signing this bill because….” you knew precisely what his position was.

    Obama now says we shouldn’t strive for perfection because we need action so badly. I’m sorry, you guys put the emphasis on “perfection” during the Bush years when the response to Katrina was up for Bush-hate, like 9/11 was up for Bush-hate, like when taking out Saddam was up for Bush-hate.

    When you give out almost $1 trillion of taxpayer money to just any damn thing Robert, YES YOU HAVE TO STRIVE FOR PERFECTION. It has to be right. You just don’t drive by in a train throwing it out by the damn handful.

    And you don’t accept generalized statements like that when he cannot tell us what “theories” he was reminded of. He’s just throwing out tidbits to the mindless left who think this is still an election time who will say “that was brilliant!”

    “Why the hell do you think this package needs to get passed? I called Jon Kyl and John McCain yesterday and expressed a desire for them to not play politics and get this done. ”

    That entire paragrah was not even worth pasting because again, we’re getting more nonsense one usually spews during an election cycle. So let me remind you again as well as Obambi – THE ELECTION IS OVER! Making certain that $1 trillion tax dollars gets spent properly is NOT playing politics.

    So, tell me. If this bill gets released as-is with all the pork, how will this benefit your job? How much of $1 trillion is going to put you back to work and just how is that going to work? Because the last time I checked, money for abortions and global warming isn’t going to do it.

    “She doled out $1,700 in dividends from oil revenue. Kind of sounds like socialism…
    And per diem pay is supposed to be used for travel on official state business, not for driving from an Anchorage office to her house. It has nothing to do with any jet being sold.”

    First, a conservative can make the argument that dipping into pockets of oil execs who arguably charged too much for revenue is against free-market standards. However; dipping into pockets of oil execs and standing up to those who believe like you do that Republicans are here to protect them is precisely why Sarah Palin is a better leader who makes decisions based on what is right. While we all support free market standards, I am certain you, me, Mel, etc….could hold different opinions on it and all simultaneously agree that oil execs could have been charging too much money. That’s quite different from saying that anyone who makes over $250K per year as a small business owner is “living high on the hog” while you have an expensive inauguration eating imported steak and having an endless supply of KFC chicken strips on hand 24/7. (It was a joke, don’t cry!)

    I guess what Palin did is something you can call “moderate.” While extreme conservatives would not support it, extreme liberals would be ticked that she didn’t go even farther with other business owners “living high on the hog.” Excuse her, please.

    Not one official report has been released deeming anything she did with Per Diem to be out of line. Nothing. A NY Times article does not count, either. Driving back and forth is an expense when your home is located a half state away. Then taking trips where the first family is allowed to attend was portrayed as “her kids flew at the expense of the state.” She could have kept the $2.7M jet and saved the taxpayers $30K in Per Diem! I don’t expect you to know all the fundamentals of accounting, Robert. But I do ask that you hold a 3rd grade mathematical ability to tell us which one was a better business decision.

    “You fucked it up, now we have a mess to clean up. So if that means a complete reversal of the last eight years, great. Fantastic”

    The Community Reinvestment Act has nothing to do with the last eight years.

    “There would be no need to insult her if she kept her mouth shut. For someone who blames the media for her idiocy, she sure has been cozying up to them after her loss…”

    First, she hasn’t said much. Certainly not enough to drown out the nonsense coming from your own party. Second, if she’s playing the same cat-mouse game with the media now that they played with her, so be it. She’s bound to do a better job and deserves every penny of that $11M her book deal is bringing her. That’s what we call free market. It doesn’t affect you or me.

    Speaking of which, I cannot wait to see whose book has more sales. Palin’s one versus Obambi’s two.

    “What? You guys are the ones bringing her up. You’re the one with a giant banner at the top of your page worshipping her.”

    No, we’re merely pointing out that for every lie the media comes up with about her, we can counter it with a factual moment of stupidity from Obambi or Biden. We don’t even have to take what they say out of context like you guys do!

    His “brilliant” explanation was much like a statement from a trembling freshman standing in front of a principal. He better be able to give answers. If he cannot, you can ponder what his answers will be when we are in a real mess.

    He cannot say “the last eight years” in 2012.

    Hell, he cannot even do that now.

  16. Point well made, John. I was going to say something similar but you said it better.

    I will grant you, Robert, Bush’s seemingly endless goofs during speaking engagements were funny, too. There was plenty to amuse us. But if Obama is doing things right, I fail to see how. He’s saying that this stimulus package is desperately needed, but I haven’t heard him say word one about how, specifically, he came up with the figures included. Here’s a little bit of what this stimulus is paying for:

    $650M for the digital converter-box coupon program
    $448M for the Department of Homeland Security to build a new headquarters
    $248M for furniture at said headquarters
    $600M for hybrid vehicles for federal employees
    $400M for the CDC’s STD program
    $125M for the D.C. sewer system
    $150M for the Smithsonian’s facilities to be updated
    $75M for “smoking cessation”
    $6B for federal buildings to “go green”
    $500M for state and local fire departments (this is one of the very few items I actually agree with)
    $88M to renovate the Public Health Services’ headquarters
    $850M to Amtrak (why…?)
    $200M for leases on alt-fuel vehicles to be used on military bases
    $160M for JobCorps to repair or renovate existing buildings–NOT for jobs
    $79B for “state stabilization funds” that are ONLY for education organizations
    $48B for “renewable energy,” with not one cent available to make fossil fuels affordable–at least $6B of this fund is for environmental cleanups resulting from the research.

    Also included in the “stimulus” are “temporary” holds on the 3-month limit on food voucher benefits, giving people incentive to not want to find work, as well as hundreds of millions for ATV trails, tax breaks for Hollywood film companies, and now (this was added–reprehensibly–by Republicans) a break on mortgages for everyone who is in deferment. That means even the thousands who own multiple properties and lied on their income to buy more house than they could afford are about to be bailed out.

    We were always on your side about the Bush bailouts. If you could have seen me, I would have been jumping up and down and flailing my arms like a loony bird, wailing for Congress to make it stop. As I said earlier, the bailouts were written in such a way that EVERY bank had to take a portion whether they needed it or not. That is absolutely ridiculous.

    I would have been happy if the torture issue had been the only boondoggle of the Bush administration. I would rather have had that than his bailouts and Obama’s further theft of national funds. What Obama is doing is no better.

  17. “You obviously haven’t been paying attention. I think everyone here understands the concept of shit rolling downhill, so to speak. That doesn’t negate the fact that a majority of corporations in this country don’t pay their taxes. So, while I appreciate the time you took to provide examples of how a company foots you with their bill, the fact remains…”

    O.K. Robert…

    If a coporation has a tax and does not pay that tax, then yes Robert you are right. That is wrong. Every entity that has a tax should pay the tax owed. I am sure we both agree on that.

    Now, if an entity has a tax of zero under the Tax Code, then what does that entity pay? That entity pays zero. This is where you and I might have a disconnect.

    What I sense from your posts is Corporations have a tax of zero because of their friends on Capitol Hill and they should pay something. I don’t disagree with the former. That is true. The latter though I disagree with. Taxing corporations is the same as taxing the general population. Let me toss in one more thing.

    Everyone has to eat food. If the local dairy raises the price of its milk to cover the higher taxes it has to pay, then the people who buy that milk cover that. Those people include wealthy people who drink that milk and poor people too. Do you want poor people paying more for milk because the company that produces the milk doesn’t pay enough taxes?

  18. “Point well made, John. I was going to say something similar but you said it better.”

    Thanks Mel. I am glad you get it. Maybe I am some kind of money savant because it makes perfect sense to me.

    I have two rules about money that never ever change.

    1. All money is eventually enjoyed by someone.

    2. Everything is eventually paid for.

    If Great Aunt Gertie is a tightwad and never enjoyed the money she earned, then the people who inherit it probably will. The moral here? Live a little!

    If Jenny Public steals a new blouse from a department store, then Katie Public will pay for that when she buys a new blouse at the same department store. Moral here? The department store is not going to eat the cost of what shoplifters steal.

  19. “Even though you were enraged, Bush gave you straight answers like “I’m not signing this bill because….” you knew precisely what his position was.”

    Really, Steve? Straight answers? What was the reason given by the President for invading Iraq? What did he say was the reason for vetoing SCHIP? Straight answers, my ass…

    “And you don’t accept generalized statements like that when he cannot tell us what “theories” he was reminded of. He’s just throwing out tidbits to the mindless left who think this is still an election time who will say “that was brilliant!””

    I knew exactly what he was talking about. The republicans want more tax cuts for the wealthy. Don’t get all pissy because it went over your head…

    “So, tell me. If this bill gets released as-is with all the pork, how will this benefit your job? How much of $1 trillion is going to put you back to work and just how is that going to work? Because the last time I checked, money for abortions and global warming isn’t going to do it.”

    So, you’re saying I should only be concerned with my particular profession? I try my best to advocate for the things that will benefit the majority, not just myself. This is what separates you and I, it’s what separates liberals from conservatives. If the economy as whole does better, confidence will return and new buildings will need to be built to support new business. It’s got to start somewhere. I just happen to know it starts from the bottom up, not from the top down.

    “Not one official report has been released deeming anything she did with Per Diem to be out of line. Nothing. A NY Times article does not count, either.”

    Does the Anchorage Daily News count?

    http://www.adn.com/sarah-palin/story/521329.html

    “She could have kept the $2.7M jet and saved the taxpayers $30K in Per Diem! “

    That’s a false choice, Steve. Look at that article. Former Governor Tony Knowles didn’t do it. Bottom line: you shouldn’t get paid per diem for living in your home. The jet has nothing at all do with this.

    “The Community Reinvestment Act has nothing to do with the last eight years.”

    Nor does it have anything to do with the current mess.

    “Speaking of which, I cannot wait to see whose book has more sales. Palin’s one versus Obambi’s two.”

    I love how book sales somehow determines a person’s intelligence or worth to society to you. Plus, I’m pretty sure you’ve gotta be able to read before you can write…

    “No, we’re merely pointing out that for every lie the media comes up with about her, we can counter it with a factual moment of stupidity from Obambi or Biden. We don’t even have to take what they say out of context like you guys do!”

    What am I taking out of context? Again, you’re blaming everyone but her for her failure. Is it my fault that she spouts off idiocy by erroneously asserting that Russia ever enters U.S. airspace? Is it the media’s fault that she can’t properly inform a third grader as to the duties of the Vice President? Who, other than Sarah Palin, can you blame for her not knowing which countries are part of NAFTA, or that Africa is a continent, not a country? You seriously need to stop making excuses for her. If you like her, fine, you are advocating a nimrod to be the leader of your party. I’ve got no qualms with that. But stop blaming those of us who use our own eyes and ears to form an opinion about her, it’s getting a little whiny…

    “His “brilliant” explanation was much like a statement from a trembling freshman standing in front of a principal. He better be able to give answers.”

    Wow, I’m not sure what planet you’re living on, but only in the mind of a Republican can the president smack you down and have that be viewed as something a trembling freshman would do. Also, as he stated before, he won the election. You are the minority. He does not even need your votes, and moreover, something like 80% of the public wants this thing passed. My point is, he doesn’t have to answer to you, he has to answer to us all, and frankly, your “questions” just aren’t that pressing…

  20. “That doesn’t negate the fact that a majority of corporations in this country don’t pay their taxes.”

    Are you insane? What corporations avoid paying taxes?

  21. “He’s saying that this stimulus package is desperately needed, but I haven’t heard him say word one about how, specifically, he came up with the figures included”

    That’s because he didn’t. The bill originated in the House Appropriations Committee. I don’t have a huge problem with this bill:

    $650M for the digital converter-box coupon program

    *This is kind of dumb. I don’t think the signals should even be switched in the first place. They’re taking publicly owned airwaves and privatizing them. Bad idea

    $400M for the CDC’s STD program

    *Preventing the spread of STDs will drive down the cost of health care

    $125M for the D.C. sewer system

    *Infrastructure is a great investment. No gripe with me there. Remember last year, when the pipes beneath that very ground burst, backing up traffic for miles?

    $75M for “smoking cessation”

    *Again, the cost of health care

    $6B for federal buildings to “go green”

    *Awesome. Creating a green economy means jobs, pure and simple.

    $850M to Amtrak (why…?)

    *Public transportation saves people lots of money on gas and cuts down on pollution…

    $160M for JobCorps to repair or renovate existing buildings–NOT for jobs

    *How is that not for jobs? No one’s gonna do it for free…

    $79B for “state stabilization funds” that are ONLY for education organizations

    *This one will take some time. I am a true believer that education is a worthwhile investment. I think that college should be free. It ultimately benefits society, and generates cash flow

    $48B for “renewable energy,” with not one cent available to make fossil fuels affordable

    *Weaning ourselves off of fossil fuels means less likelihood for future wars breaking out, and we can put our genius to work creating new jobs for the 21st century. I think it’s a great thing.

    “and now (this was added–reprehensibly–by Republicans) a break on mortgages for everyone who is in deferment. That means even the thousands who own multiple properties and lied on their income to buy more house than they could afford are about to be bailed out.”

    Oh, come now. Let’s not be mean. Real people need help too. I think it was an insidious thing to hand all that money to banks, no questions asked, while the average hard working American got screwed. It is literally impossible to tell how many people received these so called “liar loans”, since they were shredded up into little tiny pieces and hidden in mortgage backed securities. But, me being the optimist, choose to give people the benefit of the doubt here. They need some relief. I’d like to be able to turn on the news and not hear about how some poor family committed a murder-suicide to prevent being tossed in the street due to foreclosure.

    “We were always on your side about the Bush bailouts. If you could have seen me, I would have been jumping up and down and flailing my arms like a loony bird, wailing for Congress to make it stop”

    I think you should film that and put it on YouTube 😛

  22. “Are you insane? What corporations avoid paying taxes?”

    See the above reuters article that quotes stats from the GAO.

  23. “I knew exactly what he was talking about. The republicans want more tax cuts for the wealthy. Don’t get all pissy because it went over your head…”

    Really? Please explain precisely what change which Republican proposed that would “give tax cuts to the wealthy.”

    “Really, Steve? Straight answers? What was the reason given by the President for invading Iraq?”

    He gave you 5 straight answers. One of them, he happened to be wrong about. But the other 4 he never took back. Frank Rich of the NY Times understood them well enough to say that the problem with Bush is that he gave us “too many reasons” to go to war. Afterwards; like most liberals, Rich developed amnesia.

    1.) Establishing a foothold in the Middle East.
    2.) Relieving gays and women from rape rooms and human shredders (as well as mass graves).
    3.) Democracy (hey, they just voted again, did you notice how proud the women looked?)
    4.) A stronger ally in future years.
    5.) WMD (one out of five, not bad)

    There you have them. See before, you had no problem knowing about them…you just shot them all down because you disagreed. But Bush was clear on every position and you were never left with “Huh?”

    “Does the Anchorage Daily News count?”

    No it does not. An official statement is something released by the government saying she violated something by using her rightful per-diem. You’re just pretending that there’s something wrong with it because Troopergate and Tanning-bed-in-her-home-gate kind of wore weary on ya.

    “Nor does it have anything to do with the current mess.” [Community Reinvestment Act]

    Not only does it have everything to do with the current mess, the results of it will continue to unfold.

    It’s not over. Because you have insisted on learning the hard way why communism and big government has failed every other part of the world.

    Now, we agree there are a few more elements. For example; since Obama was elected Wall Street has been so frightened that the stocks have continued to tank.

    “Who, other than Sarah Palin, can you blame for her not knowing which countries are part of NAFTA, or that Africa is a continent, not a country?”

    1.) 57 states
    2.) FDR was not President in 1929, nor were there TV’s.
    3.) We still don’t know which newspapers they read, either, so technically they are tied with Palin on that one.

    “but only in the mind of a Republican can the president smack you down”

    And only in the mind of a liberal could a re-hashed statement from the primary be considered a “smackdown.”

    It’s called fantasy. You could have also suggested that Keith Olbermann had a large viewing audience. Makes no difference to me.

    “So, you’re saying I should only be concerned with my particular profession”

    No, but as a fellow taxpayer, I certainly hope you’re more concerned with your profession than you are about giving handouts to Amtrak, global warming, and abortion mills.

    This is like suggesting that Keith Olbermann has a large viewing audience.

  24. “The report did not name any companies. The GAO said corporations escaped paying federal income taxes for a variety of reasons including operating losses, tax credits and an ability to use transactions within the company to shift income to low tax countries.”

    Robert, why shouldn’t a company be able to use their net operating losses? Do you even know what one is?

    A net operating loss means that they may have had five years of total losses as a company. Year six, they have a great profit. The net operating loss rolls over and depletes it. OF COURSE IT SHOULD!

    How about the jobs that company creates?

    How about the payroll taxes it covered that it matched on all those employees?

    How about interest expense incurred on loans required to make payroll?

    Second, what the hell is wrong with a tax credit?

    Hey Robert – you know what Obama is going to do? He wants to give a “tax credit” to corporations who hire employees.

    Hail Obambi!

    Finally, if someone else sells a product or service to another country, it is taxable in that country.

    This article was written for idiots. (no offense) It had no business using the word “escaped” as if corporations had all this massive profit and it was performing a magic act.

  25. “Really? Please explain precisely what change which Republican proposed that would “give tax cuts to the wealthy.””

    Mitch McConnell was crying about this just yesterday. There’s already a chunk of that money going to tax cuts for the poor and middle class, but the republicans want more to go to the rich. It doesn’t work. It never has, you people should let this one go.

    “He gave you 4 straight answers”

    No, he changed his rationale every time what he previously said turned out to be false.

    “1.) Establishing a foothold in the Middle East.
2.) Relieving gays and women from rape rooms and human shredders (as well as mass graves).
3.) Democracy (hey, they just voted again, did you notice how proud the women looked?)

    4.) A stronger ally in future years.

    5.) WMD (one out of five, not bad)”

    When did the President EVER give anything but #5 as an actual reason for going into Iraq? When? He has never given the public an answer. He should have at least been honest and gave #1 as an answer. When this country goes to war, the reason damn well better be evident to every man, woman and child. This was not. Obviously.

    “It’s not over. Because you have insisted on learning the hard way why communism and big government has failed every other part of the world.”

    What? You have officially lost it, buddy. YOUR ideology of Reaganomics, Thatchernomics, deregulate and privatize everything, THAT is what has failed everywhere it’s been attempted. Look at Chile, they tried privatizing social security, it resulted in like 50% unemployment. Look at Iceland, those morons drank the Tom Friedman Kool-Aid, the entire country went bankrupt. Obama is not promoting communism, he’s not promoting socialism (you don’t really know what it is, I’m sure your definition is closer to Marxism, and a lot closer to Stalinism), and he’s not trying to make us like some other country.

    “Now, we agree there are a few more elements. For example; since Obama was elected Wall Street has been so frightened that the stocks have continued to tank.”
    Yeah, it’s got nothing to do with any kind of downward spiral that started in December of 2007. What was your excuse when it reacted the same way when Bush was in office?

    “And only in the mind of a liberal could a re-hashed statement from the primary be considered a “smackdown.””

    Well, you assholes are throwing a fit and being obstructionists as if you’re pertinent anymore. You had to be put in your place…

  26. “Mitch McConnell was crying about this just yesterday. There’s already a chunk of that money going to tax cuts for the poor and middle class, but the republicans want more to go to the rich. It doesn’t work. It never has, you people should let this one go.”

    Robert, the taxes being paid this year are not being paid by the poor. It’s not a “tax credit” if they aren’t paying anything right now as it is? They don’t deserve a credit on something they are not paying.

    What world are you living in?

    “No, he changed his rationale every time what he previously said turned out to be false.”

    No, we held true to them for every year since. YOU tried to forget all of them to convince fellow stupid Americans that he lied. Remember?

    You guys could never quite get that straight could you? Was he too good of a liar to be stupid? Or was to too stupid to be a good liar. Because judging by whichever rant you’re in the mood to give, you’ve claimed both.

    “When did the President EVER give anything but #5 as an actual reason for going into Iraq? When?”

    Ask Frank Rich of the NY Times.

    LOL, first you defend socialism by saying it’s direct opposite – free market and private sectors – fail. Then you say “Obama’s not a socialist.”

    So which is it? Are you defending socialism? Defending Obama? Or both when the mood strikes you right?

    “What was your excuse when it reacted the same way when Bush was in office?”

    Well, it was the last year. America kind of knew what was coming. We all watched Republicans warn Democrats about Fannie and Freddie and only saw the media report half of it.

    Smart people bailed out. How can you blame them?

    “Well, you assholes are throwing a fit and being obstructionists as if you’re pertinent anymore. You had to be put in your place…”

    Interesting you’re the one frustrated enough to use profanity.

  27. “What world are you living in?”

    The one where conservative economic policies only benefitted the wealthiest Americans. The world where, over the last eight years, the wealthiest 1% of Americans “earned” 21.2% of all income generated in this country, while the bottom 50% of Americans earned only 12.8% of all income. The world where the average tax rate of the 400 richest Americans was 17.2% in 2006 (while their income soared to $105 billion), the lowest since 1992 (the year IRS started tracking the numbers). That world. This is the world you advocate for.

    “No, we held true to them for every year since. YOU tried to forget all of them to convince fellow stupid Americans that he lied. Remember?”

    Steve, he never gave any reason you listed as a reason to invade Iraq BEFORE he started dropping bombs. All we heard was nuclear weapons and phony ties to Al Qaeda. One explanation morphed into the next like he was trying to nail Jell-O to a wall.

    “LOL, first you defend socialism by saying it’s direct opposite – free market and private sectors – fail. Then you say “Obama’s not a socialist.”
    So which is it? Are you defending socialism? Defending Obama? Or both when the mood strikes you right?”

    How is proving your ideology a failure now conflated with defending socialism? And I never said the private sector failed. Your version of a free market did. I really am confounded by your position on regulation. You claim a free market, but it’s already been established that governments create the environments in which markets can even exist, but you don’t think government should regulate what they basically created? Let me guess, you were a wildly rebellious teenager?

    “We all watched Republicans warn Democrats about Fannie and Freddie and only saw the media report half of it.”

    I love how you’re still peddling these lies. You’re never gonna let that go, are you? You’ll never acknowledge reality, will you?

    “Interesting you’re the one frustrated enough to use profanity.”

    It’s not frustration. I calls em like I sees em…

  28. “Robert,
    Get used to calling me “Uncle Steve.””

    What? You’re nobody now. Get used to being our bitch for the next four years…

  29. Nah, unlike you I can take it. I don’t have to retort with bad words.

    I’ll simply say, if this really is what it feels like to be someone’s bitch, it doesn’t say much for your manhood.

    Liberals are more reactionary now than they were at all for the entire twelve years Republicans were in power.

    I can’t say I feel overwhelmed with confidence from your side now – especially after that sorry-excuse-for-an-answer Obambi gave.

  30. “I’ll simply say, if this really is what it feels like to be someone’s bitch, it doesn’t say much for your manhood.”

    Okay, didn’t know you were looking for that…

    “I can’t say I feel overwhelmed with confidence from your side now”

    You’re not supposed to, you’re supposed to be kicking and screaming. You’re off to a good start…

  31. “You’re not supposed to, you’re supposed to be kicking and screaming.”

    Sarah Palin supporters wouldn’t have said that. I honestly see more venom coming from the left right now at every single criticism of Obambi.

    Can you imagine if GW Bush went on TV to denounce Dan Rather after the phony CBS newstory on his military service?

    There will be kicking and screaming going on in this country. It’s just not the kind you want.

    I did 24 tax returns today…..all with massive capital losses.

    I had one fella with Yum Brands stock. The historical Yum Brand stock was at a strong 38.87 per share when he inherited it in April of 2004.

    He then sold half of it on November 4th for 29.50 per share.

    Then, just two days after the election on November 10th, he sold the remainder for 22.50 per share.

    He now has loss carryforwards until 2016 since the IRS allows losses only up to $3K per year or up to the amount of gains in a single year.

    Still waiting to hear when these taxable earnings are going to return.

    Well, at least Obambi can hold true to his “tax cut for 95% of taxpayers” – the only problem is that the only reason their taxes will be cut is because none of them will be earning any income.

  32. *Preventing the spread of STDs will drive down the cost of health care*

    The objective of the stimulus is to pump needed funds into areas of society that badly need it NOW. Preventing STD’s is going to take a lot of time to have an effect.

    *Again, the cost of health care*

    Again, stopping smoking takes time to have an effect.

    *Awesome. Creating a green economy means jobs, pure and simple.*

    How? How does having solar panels and other energy-efficient features create jobs?

    *Public transportation saves people lots of money on gas and cuts down on pollution…*

    Amtrak doesn’t run public transportation in more than half of the major US cities that use trains. Phoenix doesn’t use them. LA doesn’t use them. And there are precious few major track lines that run across country, so I fail to see how giving Amtrak hundreds of millions of dollars will accomplish that end.

    *How is that not for jobs? No one’s gonna do it for free…*

    Yes, but where will those workers go when the building renovations are finished? It’s a temporary fix, like putting a band-aid on a gaping wound. The building renovations will only last a short while.

    *Weaning ourselves off of fossil fuels means less likelihood for future wars breaking out, and we can put our genius to work creating new jobs for the 21st century. I think it’s a great thing.*

    “Weaning” will take decades. Do you really believe that less oil usage will result in fewer wars? Do you honestly believe that’s what we fight for now? Afghanistan doesn’t have oil. They have opium poppies and Muslim extremists. If it ain’t one thing, it’s another.

    *I think it was an insidious thing to hand all that money to banks, no questions asked, while the average hard working American got screwed*

    No argument here. The bank I work for was forced to take bailout money despite the fact that we didn’t need any. So was one other that I know of. That was unbelievably stupid.

    If I’d thought about it at the time, I might well have put it on YouTube. Right now, if we need a stimulus, then the whole thing needs to be scrapped, special interests need to be cut out of the deal, and Congress needs to start from scratch. Bank of America already doled out $2M of it’s bailout to ACORN. If I see one more red cent of bailout or stimulus funds go to that fraud-huckster organization I’m gonna freakin’ scream.

  33. Robert,

    It might be a good idea to take an basic income tax class. There is a lot to be learned.

    Corporations have options to avoid paying income taxes or defer paying them. So do individuals.

    If I have $100,000, I can put it in the bank, earn interest and pay income tax on that interest.

    If I chose, I can invest in municipal bonds. The interest on those bonds is exempt from Federal income tax. If I invest in those bonds, I avoid paying Federal income tax on that interest.

    I get to choose. Both choices are perfectly legal.

    Tax avoidance is not a crime.

    I used to have a client who I strongly suspected was skimming the cash each day from his business and not reporting it. I could not prove this. But I found it odd he rarely deposited any cash in his business bank account.

    If my client was skimming then that is not tax avoidance. That’s tax evasion. Tax evasion is crime and should be.

    Now Congress can reform the tax code and close loopholes so every Corporation has an income tax. But my previous posted argument about Corporations passing that cost on to consumers still stands. I don’t know why you do not grasp that idea. But I am optimistic you’ll get it.

  34. “The one where conservative economic policies only benefitted the wealthiest Americans. The world where, over the last eight years, the wealthiest 1% of Americans “earned” 21.2% of all income generated in this country, while the bottom 50% of Americans earned only 12.8% of all income. ”

    If someone is happy working for someone else and collecting a payday with benefits then have at it. If that job pays the bills and bring a quality of life that person likes then fantastic. If that job does or does not put that person in the top 50% of earners then so be it. That person is happy.

    Now if someone else starts a business, works hard, creates something people want and makes millions then what is wrong with that?

    Robert you seem to hate people who work hard and get more for themselves. You want to tax them harder. This is telling them how much they can earn. Do you want people telling you how much you can earn?

  35. “Corporations have options to avoid paying income taxes or defer paying them. So do individuals.”

    So, let me see if have this straight: Tim Geithner does it, bad. Corporations do it, okay. Do I have that right? At least you’re blatant in your double standards…

    “Tax avoidance is not a crime.”

    Tell that to Wesley Snipes. Actually it is a crime. It’s called tax evasion or sometimes tax avoision.

    “But my previous posted argument about Corporations passing that cost on to consumers still stands. I don’t know why you do not grasp that idea”

    Thanks, captain obvious. You’ve told me four times now, not that I needed it once. Just because they pass the cost onto me does not alleviate the burden of actually paying taxes. That cost is recouped, it’s not paid directly by me or by you. Why aren’t you grasping that? Are you just too busy defending behavior you so readily condemn other for doing?

  36. “Robert you seem to hate people who work hard and get more for themselves. You want to tax them harder. This is telling them how much they can earn. Do you want people telling you how much you can earn?”

    I’m not in a position that I make more than $3 million a year. If I was, I would be okay with that. I could probably make $3 million last the rest of my life. Greed is good to you people, it’s the one lesson Reagan left with you. If the income disparity wasn’t so great, I wouldn’t have a problem with it. But unfortunately, we live in country where the working poor and middle class are falling through the cracks. You’re okay with that because you seem to believe that these people aren’t good enough and don’t have the drive necessary to make 400 times what the lowest paid person at their company makes. And if your argument becomes that the rich take that money and create jobs with it, you are sadly mistaken. The rich are known for hoarding their money, which is their right to do so. But I have a problem giving them tax breaks they don’t need so they can hoard it away. It provides no benefit to society. If tax breaks are a priority, I say give them to those people who spend a majority of their money, also known as the middle class. I don’t think it’s okay that I pay a higher tax rate than the 400 richest people in America, while they make hundreds of times what I make. So you’ll pardon me if I don’t buy into your whole working hard theory, because it’s been my experience that the hardest working people on earth are the ones getting paid shit.

  37. “Sarah Palin supporters wouldn’t have said that. I honestly see more venom coming from the left right now at every single criticism of Obambi.”

    If you see more venom on my side, you’re paying selective attention, because I’m sitting here trying to think who has called politicians faggots, who has made fun of someone who lost a child to an auto accident, who said that in order to lower crimes rates, we should abort every black baby in the country, who said it wouldn’t be a bad thing if Obama were assassinated, who blamed gays and feminists for 9/11. You know who said those things, Steve? Conservatives. Your ilk. And please spare me any hackneyed diatribes about those being jokes or taken out of context.

  38. “So, let me see if have this straight: Tim Geithner does it, bad. Corporations do it, okay. Do I have that right? At least you’re blatant in your double standards…”

    Tim Geithner did something OUTSIDE OF THE REALMS OF WHAT IS LEGAL IN THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE! Christ Almighty, Robert. He failed to report taxable income. Charles Rangel failed to report taxable rental income. Tom Daschle failed to report taxable income. Those are crimes, not legitimate business deductions or tax credits put forth by Charles Rangel himself who writes the damned tax code.

    “Tell that to Wesley Snipes. Actually it is a crime. It’s called tax evasion or sometimes tax avoision.”

    Here we go again…..Wesley Snipes failed to report income. He didn’t consult with his accountant and say, “hey I have this taxable income this year – should I buy any new equipment that would qualify as an expense to that income? Should I make a large charitable donation to help me out this year?” He simply FAILED TO REPORT IT.

    “Just because they pass the cost onto me does not alleviate the burden of actually paying taxes. That cost is recouped, it’s not paid directly by me or by you.”

    It does not alleviate it and it never has. Corporations can pass a cost on to the consumers by raising the base prices of their goods and services. But, just like a personal taxpayer, if at the end of the year that corporation chooses to write a massive check to St. Jude absorbing all of their profits in contributions, they are allowed to do that!

    See, it isn’t the giving spirit of the American people that you want. You couldn’t care less what Americans give and how much of their wealth they re-distribute.

    What you care about is being the one to decide where it goes.

    As I said before, Americans – all of them – have regard for the less fortunate. I have never lost faith in that fact. But we will make those decisions on our own as to who deserves it and who doesn’t. Keep your hands off of our money and if you want global warming studies to be funded, start your own charity.

  39. “I’m not in a position that I make more than $3 million a year.”

    Then live by your own standards as an American and mind your business.

    If you want to make $3M, do something. If you are comfortable the way you are, stay.

    That’s what freedom is all about. If you want something other than that, move to Cuba.

  40. “If you see more venom on my side, you’re paying selective attention”

    Just today Obama had a hissy fit and actually went off on his opposition.

    A couple of weeks ago, he whined about Rush Limbaugh.

    At his inauguartion, people actually booed President Bush. That didn’t happen at any Republican noimination, especially at Reagan’s where he still said nice things about Carter in his speech. Somehow, the crowd stopped from booing Jimmy Carter.

    Conservatives Ann Coulter, David Limbaugh, Pat Buchanan have all been attacked on college campuses with pies, salad dressing, etc.

    You show up and cannot manage a discussion without using the “F” word.

    And again, Obama has a hissy fit today, liberals are screaming at the opposition, and everybody hates conservative talk radio.

    The rage is on your side where it has always been.

    The whining about conservative talk radio is more apparent now than when Republicans were winning eveyrthing for twelve years.

    I’ve heard of sore losers, but never in my life have I witnessed such sore winners.

  41. “That’s what freedom is all about. If you want something other than that, move to Cuba”

    You very clearly know nothing about freedom. Why is it that you people fight tooth and nail about the minimum someone can make (trying to keep it as low as possible), but the fucking sky is the limit when it comes to a maximum? I really don’t know how you manage to pass yourself off as decent person when there are so many getting fucked out there due in large part to the policies you advocate for. You want more tax cuts for those already paying a lower tax rate than me, and you preoccupy yourself with fighting for the privileges of a tiny minority, while the rest of us be damned. There is a serious problem in this county, and it comes from people who think like you. Living by my own standards is not a solution, Steve, it’s a catch phrase. You seem to think that people can simply think their way out of an undesirable predicament. You are wrong. People have been fighting for years to pull themselves out of poverty, but amazingly, unseen hands push them down. Wages have been in decline since 1981. Tell me, Steve, if these millionaires you’re so fit to find redeeming qualities in are so generous, as you’d like me to believe, why haven’t they paid people better? Why haven’t wages tracked productivity? If people are to be given a chance at bettering themselves, they need to be paid fairly. But I suppose it’ll be snowing in hell before you take that position…

  42. “Just today Obama had a hissy fit and actually went off on his opposition.
    A couple of weeks ago, he whined about Rush Limbaugh.”

    If you seriously call that venom, then I think it’s high time that your manhood be called into question. You sound like a fucking baby.

    “At his inauguartion [sic], people actually booed President Bush”

    I know, it was awesome.

    “That didn’t happen at any Republican noimination [sic], especially at Reagan’s where he still said nice things about Carter in his speech. Somehow, the crowd stopped from booing Jimmy Carter.”

    What does that tell you, Steve? That’s just how despised this man is. And you can create the excuse that liberals are petty and vindictive, but guess what? Liberals have existed long before that drunken moron was selected by the Supreme Court to be president. He was a colossal failure, and wildly unpopular. He very much earned every ounce of disrespect he got, booing included. And again, I hate to sound repetitive, but that is by no means venom. Venom is your side. It’s Mann Coulter, et. al. I don’t recall any liberals saying they wished Tim McVeigh bombed the Washington Times Building…

    “Conservatives Ann Coulter, David Limbaugh, Pat Buchanan have all been attacked on college campuses with pies, salad dressing, etc.”

    Wah. Did anyone call for their assassination? Didn’t think so.

    “You show up and cannot manage a discussion without using the “F” word.”

    Sure I can, I just choose not to. You let me know if it offends your sensibilities, Stevie…

    “everybody hates conservative talk radio.”

    It’s about time

    “The rage is on your side where it has always been”

    You know, for someone who defends and celebrates the decision to invade an unarmed nation that never threatened us, killing a million civilians and displacing another four million in the process, you sure do a lot of bitching about political discourse, calling it rage when we’re no longer forced over a barrel by assholes on your side of the aisle. Bombing someone because he tries to kill your Dad – that’s rage…

    “I’ve heard of sore losers, but never in my life have I witnessed such sore winners.”

    Wow, where were you in December of 2000? You people couldn’t shut up about the Supreme Court’s decision and the subversion of democracy that occurred then…

  43. “Why is it that you people fight tooth and nail about the minimum someone can make (trying to keep it as low as possible), but the fucking sky is the limit when it comes to a maximum?”

    Because Robert, when you’re talking in terms of a unit “more than one” – and you are dealing with the measurements therein, you must strive for a happy medium.

    I have no problem with that.

    But the only problem in terms of this specific argument is that WE ARE NOT A UNIT! We are people, individuals, and as such, we have differences.

    There are 900 ways to “get rich.”

    Some are lucky to be born into it.

    Some old Polish and Irish immigrants were happy making minimum monies and working scores of overtime to accumulate hundreds of thousands of dollars over their life because they knew how to pinch pennies and cut coupons and avoid luxuries like eating out or ordering food every night of the week.

    Some sacrifice nights, weekends, and holidays to go to school in their late teens and through their 20’s to earn MBA’s, Doctorates, and licenses to take on the stress of hard jobs like making corporate decisions that hundreds of thousands working for that company depend on. (Not to mention hundreds of thousands of dollars for all that college they needed.)

    Some are talented.

    Some are beautiful.

    Some are funny.

    Then, some are happy simply paying their bills and having enough money for one vacation and a few camping trips per year with their best friends.

    You don’t have to make a certain amount of money to happy. You don’t have to dictate who is worth what to be happy.

    The key is saving all of these freedoms for all of us to choose which path we want and having the backbones and manhoods required to accept the pros and cons of our decisions without assigning the cons to people who chose a different way of life than you did.

  44. “If you seriously call that venom, then I think it’s high time that your manhood be called into question. You sound like a fucking baby.”

    Imagining what GW Bush went through and the fact that he managed to never have a big girl screaming fit in front of cameras as President? Yes…..it is precisely the point. Bush didn’t even have the media on his side like Obambi does. Bush was a man. Obambi is some who “gave a speech.” (Hillary Clinton during the primary).

    “I know, it was awesome.” [Booing Bush]

    Because you’re used to doing that. And then using “awesome” to describe such behavior is very telling of the kind of behavior you support and are used to in your personal life.

    “Wah. Did anyone call for their assassination? Didn’t think so.”

    So, the liberals throwing food were intellectual and well-thought-out individuals? You do realized they voted for your guy, right? Nobody called for Obambi’s assassination outside of the realms of liberal fantasy with a muffled rally speech to prove it. But I’m glad you brought it up because books and documentaries were done fantacizing about GWB’s assassination.

    “Sure I can, I just choose not to. You let me know if it offends your sensibilities, Stevie…”

    It’s okay, I’m used to having a 3-year old niece.

    The only difference is her knowing what will happen to her if she uses that kind of a word during a very similar tantrum.

    “You know, for someone who defends and celebrates the decision to invade an unarmed nation that never threatened us, killing a million civilians and displacing another four million in the process…..”

    Wow, and you say conservatives are exaggerate in the case of what a CEO is worth, yet statistics about the Iraq war, …you’re erring on the side of the Holocaust here in terms of numbers. A similar tantrum I must say, especially knowing the success it has brought – it only magnifies your volume.

    “Wow, where were you in December of 2000? You people couldn’t shut up about the Supreme Court’s decision and the subversion of democracy that occurred then..”

    You won without an opponent dragging it into court 13 times. The House, Senate, and Executive Branch are liberal now.

    Evidence of such: stocks still dropping, a Commander in Chief who left it up to his liberal counterparts in the House and Senate to do the nuts and bolts of a stimulus Bill because afterall, he himself had no experience sponsoring one majoring piece of reform.

    But he did co-sponsor (signing his name to other Seantors’ work) a lot of them. That’s basically what he’s doing now, only you’re now calling him “Mr. President.”

    By action, he’s still a sponsorless Jr. Senator from Illinois.

  45. “You very clearly know nothing about freedom. Why is it that you people fight tooth and nail about the minimum someone can make (trying to keep it as low as possible), but the fucking sky is the limit when it comes to a maximum?”

    Part of the point of having a minimum wage is to make sure we don’t have employers running sweat shops–it’s all part of eliminating poverty, something originally dreamed up by a liberal. I have no problem with it (contrary to popular belief, I do try to keep an open mind). The idea is to make sure that even those who don’t have the education to get a better job still have the opportunity to make a decent living with the cost of such living kept in mind. Everyone has a fair chance. I always wanted to be a rock star when I was younger, but I wasn’t willing to continue to live in near poverty to “pay my dues” to get there. I could probably still do it–I am likely the only chick in America who can play everything Dave Matthews has ever written perfectly and with ease–but now that I’m older, I tend to think more practically. I have far less stress in the career I now have than I would if I were to go back to professional music. That is my personal choice. I have no desire to tell those that DID pay their dues that it’s unfair that they have more than I do, and as a result they should pay a much higher percentage.

    “If you seriously call that venom, then I think it’s high time that your manhood be called into question. You sound like a fucking baby.”

    The venom is in the power that he wields. When he is willing to quietly use his position and popularity to slowly ease us into giving up our Constitutional rights, we have far bigger problems. It wasn’t lawmakers that blamed 9/11 on gays–it was James Falwell, someone most of the country knew to take with a very large grain of salt. And as I recall, he was soundly rebuked for what he said by the same Conservatives you’re talking about. Conservative lawmakers aren’t trying to strongarm liberals into shutting up. And I’m pretty sure Ann Coulter never called for Obama’s assassination. If she had, she’d have been flayed publicly.

    “…killing a million civilians and displacing another four million in the process…”

    We did not, repeat did NOT, kill a million civilians. That statement is based on a horrifically biased poll conducted by a liberal think-tank owned and operated by none other than George Soros. It was also conducted in areas known to have a high saturation of insurgents and supporters, such as Tikrit, where statistics of deaths would have been deliberately overreported to cast a pallor on Americans worldwide. Even though the poll was thoroughly debunked, it is obvious that many people did fall for it and didn’t do the research to find out if it was legitimate. The vast, overwhelming majority of civilian deaths have been at the hands of insurgents.

    Darfur has never threatened us, either, but there are an awful lot of Hollywood types who are demanding we do something about the genocide there. What’s the difference?

  46. Tell that to Wesley Snipes. Actually it is a crime. It’s called tax evasion or sometimes tax avoision.

    Robert

    I am going to stop with the money and tax stuff on this thread with you.

    Regarding the poor and middle class I’ll cut right to the core. It’s not my legal obligation to help people who make bad choices. It’s my moral obligation. I do donate to my church. But legally? I don’t owe these people anything. The government sees it differently. I have a big problem with that.

    As I have said before I enjoy a higher standard of living vs. my siblings because I worked for it. I do sweeten up Christmas and birthday time because I believe I am obligated to give accordingly.

    But, I won’t buy my oldest sister a BMW even if I can afford it and she’ll really appreciate it. She had a chance to earn her BMW money and she chose differently. For her it’s Ford Focus by necessity. For me it’s Ford Focus by choice.

  47. Just curious Robert. If I were a professional baseball player and earned $3,000,000 in salary, then this would be my total Federal Taxes assuming I do not itemize.

    Federal Income Tax $1,025,873
    Social Security Tax 6,324
    Medicare Tax 43,500

    Total Taxes $1,075,697

    Those taxes add up to 35.9% of my total wages.

    Is that enough tax for you Robert? The big outrage for me is the $43,500 of Meidcare insurance.

  48. “Imagining what GW Bush went through and the fact that he managed to never have a big girl screaming fit in front of cameras as President? Yes…..it is precisely the point. Bush didn’t even have the media on his side like Obambi does. Bush was a man. Obambi is some who “gave a speech.” (Hillary Clinton during the primary).”

    Bush was a man? Oh yeah, it takes a real man to lead a country into war based on false pretenses. It takes a real man to spy on people who might disagree with him. It takes a real man to torture another human being. Bush is no man, he is a fucking coward. Pure and simple.

    “Nobody called for Obambi’s assassination outside of the realms of liberal fantasy with a muffled rally speech to prove it”

    Do I really have to do this again? Pay attention this time:

    “You won without an opponent dragging it into court 13 times”

    No, we won without disenfranchising a single voter. Funny when you don’t have to go to court over that…

    “a Commander in Chief who left it up to his liberal counterparts in the House and Senate to do the nuts and bolts of a stimulus Bill because afterall, he himself had no experience sponsoring one majoring [sic] piece of reform.”

    I really don’t appreciate your intellectual laziness. You know (or at least you should) that any and all spending bills originate in the House. They’re not authored by the president, they never have been. You choose to use either ignorance or deception as a straw man to try to make your point, and I just think you’re better than that…

  49. “I am going to stop with the money and tax stuff on this thread with you.”

    Good, because it’s been boring me to tears…

  50. “Is that enough tax for you Robert? The big outrage for me is the $43,500 of Meidcare [sic] insurance.”

    And here I thought you were going to stop with this nonsense.
    Let me just pound this through everyone’s head so it’s understood. For the last time, my beef is with the ultra rich, the 400 people, who according to the IRS, pay on average, a 17.2% tax rate. That is bullshit. I pay a higher tax rate than that, and I make in a year what they make in a half hour. If you think that is okay, you are an enabler, and are advocating against your own best interests. End of discussion. Stop bothering me with this garbage. Please.

  51. “Sorry, I’m getting my religious leaders mixed up. James Dobson…JERRY Falwell.”

    What’s the difference?

  52. There is some difference…at least James Dobson has never hamstringed anyone to further his career. Nor has he ever blamed a major catasrophe on the gay community in America. He certainly isn’t perfect, but he isn’t a backstabber. Falwell was. And from what I understand the two never really got along.

  53. “Part of the point of having a minimum wage is to make sure we don’t have employers running sweat shops–it’s all part of eliminating poverty, something originally dreamed up by a liberal”

    Yes, and fought against by conservatives, along with the 40 hour work week, job safety laws, consumer protections, and the right to clean air and water. What’s your point? Mine is that while I want to see the minimum wage go up (or scrapped in favor of a living wage, which Teddy Roosevelt fought for), conservatives have fought against every increase in that wage.

    “When he is willing to quietly use his position and popularity to slowly ease us into giving up our Constitutional rights, we have far bigger problems.”

    Please, for the love of all that is Holy, give me one example of a constitutional right he is trying to take away. Because as far as I can tell, he’s trying to restore the ones stripped by the last president, like the fourth and eighth amendments and habeas corpus.

    “Conservative lawmakers aren’t trying to strongarm liberals into shutting up”

    Really? So when the republicans controlled congress, and they wouldn’t even let democrats have hearings, relegating them to the capitol building basement, what was that? And when James Sensenbrenner cut the microphones of democrats and shut off the lights during a hearing on the Patriot Act, what was that? Your side most certainly did strongarm the opposition into shutting up.

    “And I’m pretty sure Ann Coulter never called for Obama’s assassination”

    Nah, she just called for the execution of the American citizen who joined the Taliban “in order to physically intimidate liberals by making them realize that they could be killed too.” That’s totally different though…

    “We did not, repeat did NOT, kill a million civilians. That statement is based on a horrifically biased poll conducted by a liberal think-tank owned and operated by none other than George Soros. “

    No, it wasn’t. You’re trying to debunk the study conducted by Johns Hopkins. You should know that studies have been conducted by the Lancet, which is oddly enough, corroborated by the IBC (a british NGO), and odder still, from what I understand, by the UN just last week. The Hopkins study found that the median estimate was 655,000 civilian deaths, and that was in 2006. These other studies are much more recent.

    “Darfur has never threatened us, either, but there are an awful lot of Hollywood types who are demanding we do something about the genocide there. What’s the difference?”

    I think the difference is that once Bush’s third excuse for invading (liberation) wore thin, the question was raised that if you’re going to go into a country that killed 20,000 of its citizens 20 years ago, why not go into a country where actual genocide is currently taking place? It’s likely more of a rhetorical question.

  54. “There is some difference…at least James Dobson has never hamstringed anyone to further his career. Nor has he ever blamed a major catasrophe [sic] on the gay community in America. He certainly isn’t perfect, but he isn’t a backstabber. Falwell was. And from what I understand the two never really got along.”

    How about when Dobson proclaimed that only Republicans would stand up for Christian values, and when he said that Pat Leahy hated God’s people? That seems like hamstringing to me…

  55. Back when the Jim Bakker/PTL Ministries thing started to blow up, Jerry Falwell was the guy who took over for Bakker. Falwell had a major itch to become more powerful. When Bakker announced publicly that he was stepping down as the head of PTL ministries at least temporarily because of the Jessica Hahn scandal, Falwell sent executive producer Roe Messner to the Bakker’s home and asked for a list of the things they needed to stay afloat while Falwell headed PTL. He told Messner to give them the message that PTL was going to help with anything they needed. Messner came back with a list requesting temporary continuance of partial salary and health benefits until they could move on, and the next day Falwell held a press conference and read the list on PTL in a scathing, judgmental way, saying, “these are the demands of Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker…they’ve got some nerve, don’t they?”

    Falwell deliberately set the Bakker’s up to look even worse than they already did. Because of Tammy Faye’s penchant for actually caring about AIDS victims, the church was more than ready to accept anything Falwell said. THAT is the sort of hamstringing I’m talking about.

    Dobson is right in that Republicans are the only ones who will stand up for what he deems to be Christian values. You have to admit that. But you’ll have to tell me what exactly he said about Leahy, because I stopped paying attention to Dobson years ago.

  56. I see your point in that Falwell was much more of a snake.

    Here’s Dobson’s quote on Leahy:

    “Patrick Leahy is a God’s people hater. I don’t know if he hates God, but he hates God’s people.”

    I also just remembered he said this about gays:

    “Homosexuals are not monogamous. They want to destroy the institution of marriage. It will destroy marriage. It will destroy the Earth.”

    It will destroy the Earth? Wow. I can’t blame you for not paying attention to him, but as far as his comment on Republicans standing up for Christian values, I don’t see it. At least not for the last eight years. I don’t find it particularly Christian to lead a nation to war based on false pretenses. I don’t think it’s very Christian to judge people for their lifestyle. When I think Christian, I don’t think torturing other human beings. I do, however, think it’s very Christian to care for the poor and provide shelter for the homeless. I think it’s pretty Christian to realize that we are to be stewards of this planet and do everything we can to leave it a better place than we found it for the next generation. I find it incredibly Christian to make sure that none of us fall through the cracks, by way of social safety nets. So, I can argue with the point you’re trying to make…

  57. That’s the interpretation a lot of people who claim Christianity share. So in a sense, as I said, he is right.

    True Christianity, though, calls for a lot of things. A balance between justice and mercy, helping those who genuinely need it, caring for those shunned by society–all of those are pointed out in scripture. Just because a person or group claims something doesn’t mean that’s what scripture calls for. Jesus also said that “it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of the needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven,” but if you watch TBN you’d think lack of wealth is a result of a lack of faith.

  58. “Bush was a man? Oh yeah, it takes a real man to lead a country into war based on false pretenses. It takes a real man to spy on people who might disagree with him. It takes a real man to torture another human being. Bush is no man, he is a fucking coward. Pure and simple.”

    He took us to war like FDR did. We won like FDR did.

    The only difference now, people like you were rooting for the enemy and were saying the troops were paying the bad guys to stop shooting.

    “Do I really have to do this again? Pay attention this time:”

    That wasn’t a call for an assassination. We have hours of documentaries from your side. It’s also funny that you claim a greater-than-15-minute video on youtube showing Republicans warning liberals about Fannie and Freddie three years ago isn’t enough to change your opinion. But a 14 second video? Now you’re talking, Judge Judy!

    “No, we won without disenfranchising a single voter. Funny when you don’t have to go to court over that…”

    We all saw the videos on “How Obama Got Elected!” showing the kinds of crackheads who weren’t qualified to work at a carwash – let alone select a leader – a video that lasted much longer than your 14 seconds above. Also, moderates simply swayed the other way as they have been in history. All they need is four years, trust me.

    My new post, short and sweet, shows the beginning of a long term of political embarrassment. Perhaps Dianne Feinstein should teach him how to dress in the morning, too.

    ” really don’t appreciate your intellectual laziness. You know (or at least you should) that any and all spending bills originate in the House. They’re not authored by the president, they never have been. You choose to use either ignorance or deception as a straw man to try to make your point, and I just think you’re better than that…”

    Here’s my “straw man” speaking of Dianne Feinstein, in regard to Obama’s horrible lack of leadership over the stimulus:

    “I think it is important that he reached out. But lesson learned: It would have been better for him to send up his idea of a bill,” instead of having House Democratic leaders initiate the process, said Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif.”

    Perhaps one of your own pioneers was intellectually lazy as well?

  59. “For the last time, my beef is with the ultra rich, the 400 people, who according to the IRS, pay on average, a 17.2% tax rate. ”

    That is not and has never been “according to the IRS.”

    That was “according to Warren Buffet.”

    The IRS will NEVER back that statement up.

  60. “He took us to war like FDR did. We won like FDR did.”

    Are you really trying to compare a legitimate war to an illegal one? And need I remind you that we are still in Iraq, so we didn’t win anything…

    “The only difference now, people like you were rooting for the enemy and were saying the troops were paying the bad guys to stop shooting.”

    First of all, what enemy? Iraq did nothing to this country or to me. Why should I consider them an enemy? Secondly, you like to pretend that I’m making this stuff up about paying off insurgents, even though it’s well documented and well known by anyone who’s intellectually curious, which you obviously aren’t.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/28/AR2008042801120.html

    http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/53605.html

    http://www.cleveland.com/world/index.ssf/2008/10/us_lingering_tensions_could_ki.html

    Read a news report sometime, seriously….

    “That wasn’t a call for an assassination”

    What the hell do you call it?! Let me guess, she was being facetious? Well, guess what, you don’t joke about assassinating someone!

    “It’s also funny that you claim a greater-than-15-minute video on youtube showing Republicans warning liberals about Fannie and Freddie three years ago isn’t enough to change your opinion.”

    Steve, all that video tells me is that someone had access to C-SPAN archives, a lot of money, and too much time on their hands. What I find funny is the video I posted of Alan Greenspan’s testimony that he was shocked that the so called free market didn’t regulate itself, and his expressed regret that his (and your) ideology failed. So, continue to spread lies about Fannie and Freddie being the cause of it all if you must, but those in the reality based world know that massive deregulation is what allowed banks to treat Wall St. like a casino, placing bets on bets on bets that something would fail (derivatives) to the tune of $516 Trillion. But you have your cause celebre that $3 billion in bad mortgages somehow tanked the economy. Have fun with that…

    “We all saw the videos on “How Obama Got Elected!” showing the kinds of crackheads who weren’t qualified to work at a carwash – let alone select a leader “

    Hm, but some Arkansas inbred who votes for your party, they’re completely deserving of the vote they get, right? And find me 8 million crackheads who voted for Obama, and I’ll find you some prime swampland I’d like to sell…

    “Here’s my “straw man” speaking of Dianne Feinstein, in regard to Obama’s horrible lack of leadership over the stimulus:
    “I think it is important that he reached out. But lesson learned: It would have been better for him to send up his idea of a bill,” instead of having House Democratic leaders initiate the process, said Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif.””

    IDEA, Steve, not a bill. I’m sorry you don’t understand how government works. I guess they skipped that lesson in neocon class…

  61. “You call pull your foot out of your mouth anytime here…”

    And you can pull your brains out of your ass for once with regard to taxation of the wealthy.

    You said:

    “For the last time, my beef is with the ultra rich, the 400 people, who according to the IRS, pay on average, a 17.2% tax rate. That is bullshit. I pay a higher tax rate than that, and I make in a year what they make in a half hour. If you think that is okay, you are an enabler, and are advocating against your own best interests. End of discussion. Stop bothering me with this garbage. Please.”

    Nothing in those tables supports your assertion that the Internal Revenue Service says that the top 400 taxpayers pay 17.2% in income tax.

    To begin with, the table says:

    “This research credit was before any limitation for tax or alternative minimum tax. The research credit after these limitations were applied was included in the general business credit totals.”

    Alternative minimum tax is EXTRA tax one has to pay even though it’s not fairly calculated in the same way you calculate yours. First, tax is calculated, THEN AMT is added.

    Think of AMT like EIC. “Poor people” get money from the government even when they don’t pay it in. “Rich people” pay AMT in even if they have Mortgage Interest, Real Estate Taxes, and contributions to lower their own taxes. They pay extra so the “poor people” get extra.

    And I guarantee you do not pay a higher tax rate than 17%.

    Moreover; income is taxed by it’s type. EARNED income (ordinary income) is taxed the highest because we earn it in our primes, just like the 400 richest already did long ago. INVESTMENT Income (unearned income) is taxed at a lower rate because its earnings are growing off of income that was invested over the years that higher earned income tax rates were already paid for.

    What you don’t realize is that investment earnings and their taxability were massive controversies in the past. Back then, socialists like you would say:

    “well, of course those could be taxed at a lower rate, but the fact remains they should have to pay tax on them since it is income even though they paid earned income rates on the principal investments in the past when they earned it.”

    Now you are pissed that some rich old man who worked all his life isn’t paying an earned income tax rate on his interest, dividends, and capital gains?

    Never is it possible that you would know the kind of check these people write to the IRS.

    So until you can learn how to accurately interpret this type of data, stop using it to draw your own conclusions.

    THAT is intellectually dishonest.

  62. “Are you really trying to compare a legitimate war to an illegal one?”

    There was no illegal war. Nobody’s been arrested or prosecuted. Apparently your own leaders on Capitol Hill aren’t as smart as you are which means we really are in a lot of trouble.

    As is well documented, it was Saddam’s fault for making a bluff to the UN about WMD after he knew we were vulnerable and afraid. It was about that same time liberals said Bush never responded seriously to threats or talk. He responded, Saddam was taken down along with his empire, we won, now get over it.

    “First of all, what enemy? ”

    The insurgents, people like Zarqawi, and folks still fighting on behalf of Saddam who killed gays, women, and other minorities for dissenting against his hunger for power.

    “Steve, all that video tells me is that someone had access to C-SPAN archives, a lot of money, and too much time on their hands.”

    I find it ironic you didn’t notice that the video also contained words and actual discussions.

    “Hm, but some Arkansas inbred who votes for your party, they’re completely deserving of the vote they get, right?”

    The only Arkansas loyalists I know of are the Clintons. If you’re going to insult southerners, at least pick a state that the horniest hick in history that you folks worship didn’t live in.

    “IDEA, Steve, not a bill.”

    Generally, it takes an idea for the Congress to know what the President is shooting for in terms of his goals as commander in chief.

    But like the Bush years, Democrats still have no ideas for improvement. The only difference is now they have to do something in lieu of constant carping against their opposition.

  63. “It is estimated that 91,000 are under contract with coalition forces, each receiving the equivalent of $300 in U.S. currency a month for the security services they provide”

    How does this prove that we paid the enemy to be our friends?

    Are you saying that Iraqi forces working with our troops don’t deserve compensation for their work at keeping others secure?

    Maybe if they didn’t work at all and had kids they couldn’t support, you’d have more positive things to say about them. 😉

  64. “Nothing in those tables supports your assertion that the Internal Revenue Service says that the top 400 taxpayers pay 17.2% in income tax.”

    Maybe you should learn to read then. If you scroll down to the bottom of the pdf, there is a column marked “income tax”, and next to that, a column marked “average tax rate”. Glance to the 2006 column (which was the last year data was available), and what does that say, Steve? It says that average tax rate for the top 400 taxpayers is %17.17. Jackass

    “And I guarantee you do not pay a higher tax rate than 17%.”

    Wow, Steve is wrong about something! Go figure. I voluntarily pay 23% of my income in tax, in the hopes that I get a refund at the end of the year.

    “So until you can learn how to accurately interpret this type of data, stop using it to draw your own conclusions”

    Again, it’s right there in black and white, I don’t have to draw any conclusions…

  65. “There was no illegal war. Nobody’s been arrested or prosecuted.”

    So, if no one’s arrested, it’s legal? If I break the speed limit, but don’t get ticketed, it is any more legal? Don’t make foolish arguments you can’t defend…

    “He responded, Saddam was taken down along with his empire, we won, now get over it.”

    Wait a second, weren’t you the guy defending our presence in Iraq five years after “mission accomplished”? That’s when we “won” the war, but you argued against the very definition of winning a war. Now that it’s convenient for you, we won? Make up your mind.

    “The insurgents, people like Zarqawi, and folks still fighting on behalf of Saddam who killed gays, women, and other minorities for dissenting against his hunger for power.”

    Oh, you mean the people we let operate with impunity before we decided that Iraq was a threat? And insurgents are our enemy? How exactly did insurgents threaten the US before we bombed them into oblivion?

    “The only Arkansas loyalists I know of are the Clintons. If you’re going to insult southerners, at least pick a state that the horniest hick in history that you folks worship didn’t live in.”

    No, no, we’re not you. We don’t have shrines in Clinton’s honor like you and Reagan. Find me a debate among democrats that sounds like this (only with the name Clinton):

    It’s sad and pathetic, and I have no doubt you’d be humping his dead corpse if it were sitting in front of you…

    “But like the Bush years, Democrats still have no ideas for improvement.”

    I love how you say that, when a democrat has fixed every fuck up a conservative has ever made…

  66. “How does this prove that we paid the enemy to be our friends? Are you saying that Iraqi forces working with our troops don’t deserve compensation for their work at keeping others secure?”

    So, we went from me making this up to ‘they deserve to be monetarily rewarded’? Good God, you’re dense sometimes. You can’t refute facts, as much as you try. But maybe this will convince you further:

    “The U.S. program to pay mostly Sunni former insurgents to protect their neighborhoods or in some cases to stop shooting at Americans is now moving into the hands of the Shiite-led government.”

  67. “Maybe you should learn to read then. If you scroll down to the bottom of the pdf, there is a column marked “income tax”, and next to that, a column marked “average tax rate”. Glance to the 2006 column (which was the last year data was available), and what does that say, Steve? It says that average tax rate for the top 400 taxpayers is %17.17. Jackass”

    Before you read something you know nothing about and use it to draw your own erroneous conclusions, perhaps you should ask someone who knows what they’re talking about in the area of taxation.

    You asked for it, so here goes:

    The Table at the bottom of the page showing the figure 17.1% that you are quoting is NOT the tax rate based on someone’s taxable income. It is a division of their AGI. The amount of income tax in 2006 was 45,216 (number in thousand) and the taxable income (if you scroll up) is 222,451.

    45,216/222,451 = 20%

    NOW, I want you to scroll to the table that reads “Alternative Minimum Tax” where is shows that MORE people (139) were subject to it in 2006 than they were in 1992 (21). IN ADDITION TO the 20% of their taxable income, JACKASS, they paid – on average – 2,218,000 a piece in Alternative Minimum Tax!

    Two tables below that one, you will find the “Foreign Tax Credit” section where a large portion of the individuals earnings came from investments that are not in this country and they are forced to pay income tax to the foreign countries in which those investments reside. The credit for foreign tax paid (BEFORE THE INCOME IS TAXED) on average for the individuals in question was 2,559,000 per person.

    NEXT – JACKASS – Scroll down to the “marginal tax rates” that take into consideration the AMT, the tax credits they could not take because of their income levels, the foreign taxes they paid, and every other way they’ve been sucked dry. Out of the 400, Jackass, 233 ARE IN THE BRACKET OF 35% AND OVER!

    This isn’t important in illustrating what a joke you are when it comes to interpreting statistics provided by a federal organization. But it is important to illustrate how you are so narrow-minded that your focal point centered on one number that does not represent what you think it does.

    Next, you said:

    “Wow, Steve is wrong about something! Go figure. I voluntarily pay 23% of my income in tax, in the hopes that I get a refund at the end of the year.”

    I guarantee, that’s a lie. But, you can test that theory yourself:

    Go to line 61 of your 2008 1040 (total tax). Then, divide that figure by line 43.

    Do that, and I guarantee you are going to feel very silly.

    7.65% for FICA DOES NOT COUNT.
    The New Mexico State Tax rate DOES NOT COUNT.

    Do not add those in with your federal liability.

    “Again, it’s right there in black and white, I don’t have to draw any conclusions…”

    What’s in the black and white has just been explained to you. It’s not interpreting the same message you are.

  68. “So, if no one’s arrested, it’s legal? If I break the speed limit, but don’t get ticketed, it is any more legal? Don’t make foolish arguments you can’t defend…”

    We impeached a President because he used an intern as an ashtray. You guys couldn’t even pull off an impeachment, let alone logical proof that would even convince Judge Judy that the war was illegal.

    Now Robert, I know you understand this concept in the case of Arab terrorists held at Guantanamo, but YOU have to make the proper case of guilt and your party’s nuts including Kucinich should have made their case properly in a court of law, not on the Huffington Post’s web site. The rule of law in this country depends on you or your party making an adequate case. You don’t just say crazy things and leave it up to me to defend it when your case in and of itself has nothing solid to stand on.

    Don’t make stupid allegations that couldn’t even get you an impeachment and I won’t tell you how much of an airhead you are. Deal?

    “Wait a second, weren’t you the guy defending our presence in Iraq five years after “mission accomplished”? That’s when we “won” the war, but you argued against the very definition of winning a war. Now that it’s convenient for you, we won? Make up your mind.”

    I’ve spelled it out for you 80 times. The simple fact that Saddam was removed should have been enough. But afterwards, there was the re-building process of which 4 elections now have been held and scores of insurgents and terrorists have been captured or killed. Now, it is safer to walk through Anbar than it is to walk through Detroit.

    Now that you know that Obambi is not going to be able to pull them out any sooner than Bush had already negotiated, I can see how you’d hold onto these regurgitated arguments. Something about them sore winners coming through again.

    “Oh, you mean the people we let operate with impunity before we decided that Iraq was a threat? And insurgents are our enemy? How exactly did insurgents threaten the US before we bombed them into oblivion?”

    Actually, we didn’t. Your Bill Clinton along with Stephanopolous in 1997 almost assassinated Saddam because they knew he was not only a threat to us but that he had misused our prior relations to him. A person who was once deemed an ally became an enemy. The Clintons knew that and talked about it all through his administration. Bush came in and actually did it AFTER Saddam himself made the threat to the U.N. So, in your “blame America” explanation, make certain you keep the Clintons and their long eight years in that mix, too. Because in lieu of doing something about the genocide they kept proclaiming we needed to stop, they merely stood by as it was happening.

    “No, no, we’re not you. We don’t have shrines in Clinton’s honor like you and Reagan. Find me a debate among democrats that sounds like this (only with the name Clinton):”

    You only say that because you think you’ve found the replacement to the Democratic rock star who entered in with his own set of groupies. Unlike Bill, Reagan managed to stay monogomous to his wife, save us from starvation from Carter, kept his views and dignities without selling out any special interest groups that he agreed with. Conservatives were disgusted by Bill Clinton because he was a liar and a molester, but when he sold out many liberal special-interest groups (with the exception of the abortion ladies) after the Republicans came in 1994, we were supportive. Just as we were with his welfare reform and his and Al Gore’s push of NAFTA. Those were good things. Liberals hated Reagan because of EVERY policy he had.

    All Reagan had to do was speak in logical terms, and it was enough to make liberals scream. Republicans hardly were that reactive to Bill Clinton.

    Moreover; Obama nor Bill came close to Reagan’s landslide wins nor having as many viewers of their inaugurations. People loved Reagan and they always will. He died with honor and respect and every time you cheapen your own arguments by insulting him, it only strengthens him in my eyes because all of these years after his death, he still gets you to react the way you do.

    “I love how you say that, when a democrat has fixed every fuck up a conservative has ever made…”

    Yeah, Carter was brilliant. The Iranian Hostage Crisis Rescue was almost as successful as him getting the hostages into the mess in the first place. Plus, the record unemployment, record national interest rates, and double-digit inflation must have been so well-planned. Not to mention Clinton’s bombing of the aspirin factory and the slump that even he couldn’t avoid that Bush wound up inheriting.

  69. “So, we went from me making this up to ‘they deserve to be monetarily rewarded’? Good God, you’re dense sometimes. You can’t refute facts, as much as you try. But maybe this will convince you further:”

    “The U.S. program to pay mostly Sunni former insurgents to protect their neighborhoods or in some cases to stop shooting at Americans is now moving into the hands of the Shiite-led government.”

    I never said you made up what was in the Washington Post article. You, along with McClatchy thought you were being clever by taking a credible statement from a pubication like the Washington Post which had been written 4 months prior and beefing it up with your own fantasy.

    McClatchy is not taken seriously as “bipartisan.” Their writers are far from the Pulitzer Prize and here are a few interesting links on their publication:

    http://www.truthout.org/article/mcclatchy-reporters-barred-from-defense-secretarys-plane

    (Whining about the fact they were barred from the Defense Secretary’s Plane).

    The editor admits being ultra-critical of the Iraq policy from day one and that was their angle. Their articles have never been sourced by any other mainstream news outlet because they’re all transparently biased.

    Nice try.

    I hope one of our soldiers that contributed to the success in Iraq gets his hands on you.

  70. “Now Robert, I know you understand this concept in the case of Arab terrorists held at Guantanamo, but YOU have to make the proper case of guilt and your party’s nuts including Kucinich should have made their case properly in a court of law, not on the Huffington Post’s web site. The rule of law in this country depends on you or your party making an adequate case. You don’t just say crazy things and leave it up to me to defend it when your case in and of itself has nothing solid to stand on.”

    Are you high? How is anything I’m saying crazy? If anything is crazy, it’s impeaching a guy getting a blowjob. But, the guy who invades an unarmed nation that never once threatened us (which is a violation of international law) gets a free pass? I wonder if it has anything to do with his party being in control for 12 years prior. And if I’m just spouting off crazy gibberish, why was Cheney warned to either stay in the US, or go to Saudi Arabia? It’s because he will be prosecuted for war crimes if he steps foot in any other country. Same thing with Donald Rumsfeld. You have got your head so far up your own ass that you’re blinded by partisanship in a very sycophantic way, so much so that you have been rendered incapable of seeing what the rest of the country has no problem seeing. I almost feel sorry for you, but then I remember that you’re a republican…

    “Now, it is safer to walk through Anbar than it is to walk through Detroit.”

    If you believe that then you are an idiot. There’s no other way to put it. Or perhaps you’re talking about the kind of walk that John McCain had to make, wearing a bullet proof vest, surround by hundreds of soldiers on foot and in tanks, with apache helicopters overhead.
    Tell you what, why don’t you go take that walk, and tell us how it goes…

    “The Clintons knew that and talked about it all through his administration. Bush came in and actually did it AFTER Saddam himself made the threat to the U.N. So, in your “blame America” explanation, make certain you keep the Clintons and their long eight years in that mix, too.”

    Let’s not forget daddy Bush, who imposed the sanctions you’re referring to in the first place. And making the case for war with lies doesn’t mean Bush “got it done”. Sanctions are one thing, but he knew military action was unwarranted and unacceptable to the public. Why do you think Andrew Card explained that you don’t roll out a new product in August? That war was wrapped in a flag and sold to idiots like you who wouldn’t dare question authority (unless it was a democrat).

    “Reagan managed to stay monogomous to his wife, save us from starvation from Carter, kept his views and dignities without selling out any special interest groups that he agreed with”

    You’re also forgetting how he refused to negotiate with terrorists…oh wait.

    “Conservatives were disgusted by Bill Clinton because he was a liar and a molester”

    Conservatives were pissed because he spanked Bush 41 and made him a one term loser. You pricks were going after him long before anyone heard the name Lewinsky. They just kept throwing shit against a wall hoping something would stick. Just ask Richard Mellon Scaife. And do you even know what a molester is, you hack? Never mind the fact that she was a consenting adult, just pass your judgment like the hypocritical prick you are.

    “Liberals hated Reagan because of EVERY policy he had.”

    Liberals hated Reagan because he despised the poor, just like someone else in this forum.
    Liberals hated Reagan because he doubled the FICA tax on the working poor to fund his tax cuts for the rich, Cons talk a good game about how he lowered taxes, but you’re rewriting history. Every single year of his presidency, he raised taxes. He raised them in 83, in 84, in 85, in 86, in 87, and in 88. He just raised them on a class of people that’s acceptable to you.

    “Moreover; Obama nor Bill came close to Reagan’s landslide wins nor having as many viewers of their inaugurations”

    Well, if it’s a popularity contest you’re looking for, I should point out that Obama enjoyed the highest approval rating of any incoming president in history, blowing your idol out of the water.

    “Yeah, Carter was brilliant. The Iranian Hostage Crisis Rescue was almost as successful as him getting the hostages into the mess in the first place”

    Tell me how Carter is responsible for a militant group taking Americans hostage. I’d love to hear this. This is such an easy argument to shut down, all I have to do is point to how your hero only got the hostages released by giving them massive amounts of weapons. Perhaps if Carter was willing to sell out American values, he would have got the hostages released too…

    “Not to mention Clinton’s bombing of the aspirin factory and the slump that even he couldn’t avoid that Bush wound up inheriting.”

    Which slump was that, was is the $238 billion surplus slump, or the biggest economic growth the country has ever seen slump?

  71. “You, along with McClatchy thought you were being clever by taking a credible statement from a pubication like the Washington Post which had been written 4 months prior and beefing it up with your own fantasy.”

    What fantasy? I took what’s printed in black and white and merely repeated it? Where’s the fantasy in that? It’s not my fault you can’t handle reality…

    “McClatchy is not taken seriously as “bipartisan.””

    So, in other words, something has to be written by a right wing hack for you to believe it?

    “I hope one of our soldiers that contributed to the success in Iraq gets his hands on you.”
    Although it’s more likely that you hope he gets his hands on you. How about the fact that you’re a fucking chicken hawk? Too much of a coward to fight for what you so clearly believe in? Sounds about right. You’re oh so willing to let others die for what you’re so gung ho for, go fight and die yourself if you think it’s right. And speaking of success, it’s good to know that you consider a million dead citizens, four million refugees, and four hours of electricity a day to be success. I really don’t want to see failure if you think this is success…

  72. Oh my God. I am talking about income, jackass, income, income, income. No one gives a fuck about all the loopholes you find, no one cares about investments and capital gains, I am talking about income, that is all. The average tax rate on INCOME. it’s %17.17, jackass. That number is not subject to interpretation. That number is not there for someone to play with, it’s there to show what INCOME is taxed at, jackass. Spin it any way you like, but it is what it is. Jackass. Did I mention you’re a jackass?

  73. “I guarantee, that’s a lie.”

    Yeah, ’cause I totally need to lie to some jackass on the internet. Like I give a fuck what you think…

  74. “Are you high? How is anything I’m saying crazy? If anything is crazy, it’s impeaching a guy getting a blowjob. But, the guy who invades an unarmed nation that never once threatened us (which is a violation of international law) gets a free pass?”

    The fact that you said “never once threatened us” even after it was Hussein himself that went to the UN destroys the basis of your crackpot theory. My point is what you said exactly. If a nation was successful at impeachment against a President for lying about sex with an intern and what you say were indisputably true, Bush would be in jail by now. But even though you know the evidence is stacked against you, you continue to say it as if it were true, as if he were impeached, and as if he were arrested.

    “Tell you what, why don’t you go take that walk, and tell us how it goes…”

    Sure.

    “Let’s not forget daddy Bush, who imposed the sanctions you’re referring to in the first place.”

    Largely in part to Democratic caterwauling. Daddy Bush was never my favorite anyway. The best thing he did was give us Clarence Thomas. He raised taxes, you should be in love with him.

    “You’re also forgetting how he refused to negotiate with terrorists…oh wait”

    You’re also forgetting that if Carter hadn’t turned against the Shah and began the love-hate relationship we held with the Iranians since the Shah was deposed that there would be no negotiations needed, the Middle East would not be overwhelmed with terrorism, 9/11 would not have occured, and none of us had to walk on broken glass for the leaders there. Unfortunately because of Democrat ignorance, we are at this point. Much like the 1994 deal with N. Korea. They started building nukes before the ink was dry on the agreement and we gave them that fuel to do it, too. Now, it’s a much bigger problem because we tried to be friends, first.

    “Conservatives were pissed because he spanked Bush 41 and made him a one term loser.”

    Conservatives don’t like Bush 41. And Carter was a one-term HORRIBLE loser. Shall we watch the 1980 election night coverage together?

    “Liberals hated Reagan because he despised the poor, just like someone else in this forum.”

    Conservatives love Reagan because in order to replace their lack of arguments and logic, they insinuate hate against him, as they do against me.

    Mission accomplished!

  75. “So, in other words, something has to be written by a right wing hack for you to believe it?”

    Something has to be written by someone without such a left-wing view yes. I could quote Rush Limbaugh who’s been around much longer than McClatchyDC and has more listeners than they have readers.

    Would you accept that?

    “Oh my God. I am talking about income, jackass, income, income, income. No one gives a fuck about all the loopholes you find, no one cares about investments and capital gains, I am talking about income, that is all.”

    What do you think investments and capital gains are? There are no “loopholes.” You just made a butt of yourself. Just accept it and move on.

    “The average tax rate on INCOME. it’s %17.17, jackass”

    On GROSS income before deductions. If you divided your tax by your GROSS income in lieu of your TAXABLE income, I guarantee you’ll only find about 6% was paid in by you or retained by the treasury. I guarantee it. Not 23%.

    The income is subject to interpretation when you’re calculating your rate one way and taking this one to compare to yours. It’s not a realistic interpretation.

  76. “I could quote Rush Limbaugh who’s been around much longer than McClatchyDC and has more listeners than they have readers”

    Hitler had many followers too. Stevie, you remind me of the manager of the asshole store.

  77. “Hitler had many followers too. Stevie, you remind me of the manager of the asshole store.”

    If there were such a thing, you certainly would know about it. But apparently, you’ve got too much time on your hands.

    You liberals are all the same. Use bad sources to insult the troops and when someone slaps you with just a tiny bit of logic, that is your general type of response.

    Entertaining to say the least.

  78. “I could quote Rush Limbaugh who’s been around much longer than McClatchyDC and has more listeners than they have readers”

    Rush Limbaugh is a pundit, McClatchy is a news organization with actual journalists who have won medals for journalistic independence. Good to see where you’d rather get your “news”…

  79. “The fact that you said “never once threatened us” even after it was Hussein himself that went to the UN destroys the basis of your crackpot theory”

    Why don’t you tell everyone on this forum when exactly Hussein threatened the United States, and we’ll see who the crackpot is. This war has been de-legitimized by anyone with half a brain. Barry Goldwater is probably spinning in his grave after what you monsters did to his party.

    “If a nation was successful at impeachment against a President for lying about sex with an intern and what you say were indisputably true, Bush would be in jail by now”

    Yeah, well, we’ll see what Eric holder has to say about that…

    “But even though you know the evidence is stacked against you”

    What planet are you living on? The evidence is stacked against ME? Where are the WMDs, Steve? Bush admitted to circumventing FISA when he eavesdropped on Americans, we have memos from John Yoo and David Addington authorizing the use of torture, we have Cheney defending it on national TV, what more evidence do you need to open your eyes? Are you really this stupid? I’d like to believe not, but you sure can play the part…

    “He raised taxes, you should be in love with him.”

    Yeah, he had no choice after Reagan’s retarded voodoo economics. “Read my lips: no new taxes” really meant “sorry, but my predecessor was a moron”

    “You’re also forgetting that if Carter hadn’t turned against the Shah and began the love-hate relationship we held with the Iranians since the Shah was deposed that there would be no negotiations needed, the Middle East would not be overwhelmed with terrorism, 9/11 would not have occurred, and none of us had to walk on broken glass for the leaders there.”

    There’s just so much wrong with that statement. First, you’re now admitting what the rest of the world knew, that Reagan capitulated to terrorists (something you previously called me a moron for – who’s the moron now?), but then you downshift into blaming the entire middle east conflict on Carter? What are you, retarded? How do you explain the hundreds of years of strife that occurred before he was even born? And we see here again your sycophantic nature, where you’d rather blame everyone except the guy who was charge on 9/11. I’ll ask again, was it Carter’s fault that Bush didn’t hold one single meeting regarding terrorism until early September 2001? Was it Carter’s fault that the DOJ cut anti terrorism funding on September 10, 2001? No, your party routinely capitulates to the demands of terrorists, and you have the nerve to blame Democrats for terrorism? You’re out of your mind.

    “Shall we watch the 1980 election night coverage together?”

    Sure, we also can watch the hostages being released simultaneously on picture in picture…

    “Conservatives love Reagan because in order to replace their lack of arguments and logic, they insinuate hate against him, as they do against me.”

    That does not even make sense…

  80. “Entertaining to say the least”

    Actually, Stevie, entertaining is watching you go through your illogical and pathetic rationalizing gyrations in the fruitless attempt to make a “point”. You’re the height of entertainment: a huge jackass who spouts such lame bullshit that from anyone else it would be assumed it was an intentional farce. However, from you one gets the sense that you’re blissfully unaware of your inherent and wondrous douchebagery. Drone on, lil Stevie, drone on!

  81. “You’re the height of entertainment: a huge jackass who spouts such lame bullshit that from anyone else it would be assumed it was an intentional farce.”

    I kind of thought it was intentional too at first…

    “However, from you one gets the sense that you’re blissfully unaware of your inherent and wondrous douchebagery”

    Douchebaggery. Classic…

  82. douchebaggery

    1)The philosophy held by douchebags, holding that no one other than themselves (or perhaps their close associates) matters in the least bit, and thus that other human beings can and should be treated like complete excrement for little or no reason (and often for selfish reasons). Closely related to fascism, which has been practiced by control freaks such as Adolf Hitler and Stevie of GayConservative.org.

  83. Youre so cool! I dont suppose Ive read something like this before. So good to seek out any person with some original ideas on this subject. realy thanks for starting this up. this website is something that’s wanted on the internet, somebody with slightly originality. useful job for bringing something new to the internet!

  84. Nice read, I just passed this onto a friend who was doing some research on that. And he just bought me lunch since I found it for him smile So let me rephrase that Thank you for lunch! Whenever you have an efficient government you have a dictatorship. by Harry S Truman. dbabffccddgd

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