What Would Have Happened If Bush Said it?

Tonight, Obama urged the Senate to quickly pass the near-trillion dollar stimulus and threw in these encouraging words to Americans:

“The plan is not perfect,” the president said. “No plan is. I can’t tell you for sure that everything in this plan will work exactly as we hope….

Can you imagine if GW Bush would have said this in response to a question about Iraq?

This is beyond partisan now, this isn’t funny or entertaining, this is literally dangerous!

At least our frequent liberal visitors like Robert will attempt to formulate some kind of defense with more regard for what he is sure will be a positive outlook than the President is able to do.

I cannot help it.  I feel as if the President himself is setting himself up for failure with this and by running around like Chicken Little saying “the sky is falling!” he has frightened some of the craziest Republicans like Olympia Snowe into supporting it.

Is it any wonder some Republicans and even liberals kept telling us how much more qualified Snowe was than Palin?

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44 thoughts on “What Would Have Happened If Bush Said it?

  1. Anyone notice that Obamessiah and right-hand financial man Tim Geithner have just unveiled an even bigger, $2T bailout today?

    Where are the liberals who screamed at Bush for HIS bailout?!?

  2. “Where are the liberals who screamed at Bush for HIS bailout?!?”

    The merging of government and business is facisim. These bailouts are that very thing.

    A lot of bad press has resulted from Wall Street bonuses. On the surface it seems justified. But if you dig deeper then it gets murky.

    Imagine this. You sell real estate. Your real estate agency will pay you a generous bonus if you sell a certain dollar volume of real estate. You have to work very hard and close a lot of deals to earn this bonus.

    During 2008, you have a great year but your real estate agency overall had a crappy year. It it is bankrupt. The people who run your real estate agency screwed up. They also screwed you.

    So bonus times comes around and there is no money to pay you the bonus because the real estate agency is bankrupt. Under normal conidtions you have to lump that and move on.

    But wait, the government bails out your real estate agency. Now should you get your bonus? I can see why you should and should not. Certainly the people runing your real estate agency should not get a bonus. They sure did not earn one. But what about you?

    By granting a bailout doesn’t the government assume the responsibility to make good on the employer-employee agreement regarding bonuses?

  3. Because you’re a member of the organization being bailed out by public funds you lose any potential bonus you had coming. The company is seen as monolithic in that situation.

  4. “Because you’re a member of the organization being bailed out by public funds you lose any potential bonus you had coming. The company is seen as monolithic in that situation.”

    That’s one way of looking at it. Another way of looking at it is does the bailout allow for bonus payments?

    That’s one of the challenges of a bailout. Just what rules and strings come with it? One must be very thorough to cover essential things without going overboard. It is clear to me the first time around the government was not. So what’s going to be different about this next round?

    What if the City of Baltimore is given $100 million to renovate/build schools and $20 million of that is spent to pay teachers? Whose butt will burn in the blaze when that happens?

  5. “Because you’re a member of the organization being bailed out by public funds you lose any potential bonus you had coming.”

    Great, you just described Barack Obama’s job, Nancy Pelosi’s, and Harry Reid’s as well. I think we should all have a say in how their income is taxed – as well as their health care packages and pensions.

    When a public company – along with its Board of Directors elects a President, a VP, and a Treasurer, they can decide whatever they want in regard to bonuses.

    So, let’s assume that the bonuses are wiped out at your request. What’s to stop them from making that bonus part of their overall income?

    As an American, I’d prefer you be more concerned with how the government is about to spend $1T of true public money rather than that of a corporation with a board of directors who are far more qualified than you to make the decisions they are paid to make.

  6. “So, let’s assume that the bonuses are wiped out at your request. What’s to stop them from making that bonus part of their overall income?”

    BOOM!!! I used to have a job where I had the potential to earn a 20% bonus and almost did. I hit 19% one year. I averaged 15%. I worked my ass off to get that too.

    Now, let’s lump that 15% into my regular salary. Other than keeping my job and my own personal drive to do well, what incentive do I have to bust my ass? I’ve already got my bonus with each paycheck.

    The whole purpose of bonuses is to encourage employees to do more than what is expected. Sometimes the purpose of a bonus is to get employees to do what is expected.

  7. Okay, I have one question here. Why do people depend on their bonuses? It’s a bonus, right? So if something is a “bonus” it is “in addition to” what they are making as base salary. It is not their salary. It is an extra.

    Now, the AF doesn’t pay bonuses to people who aren’t pilots, so we’ve never gotten a bonus. So, what we do is manage within the means we have already in our month to month salary.

    Why should anyone else be different? When did bonuses become entitlements?

    I see what you mean, John, about a bonus being something that can tangibly be worked towards and the feelings of anger that would come from working towards a goal and being denied the goal. But that happens sometimes, you know?

    Life was never given to us with a guarantee of being easy or fair. We do the best we can. And why should the American public – ME – be responsible form someone else’s missed bonus?

    The money has to come from somewhere. It is someone else’s car payment, new shoes, dinner out, or fixed toilet. And what service has the person receiving the bonus from the rest of America given the rest of America to deserve our money?

  8. “When a public company – along with its Board of Directors elects a President, a VP, and a Treasurer, they can decide whatever they want in regard to bonuses”

    Not when they’re being bailed out by the taxpayers, Stevie.

    “As an American, I’d prefer you be more concerned with how the government is about to spend $1T of true public money”

    And I’d prefer you be more concerned about how to be less of a douchebag. Keep on wishing.

    “rather than that of a corporation with a board of directors who are far more qualified than you”

    Speak for yourself, HR / Accounting flunky.

  9. “Why do people depend on their bonuses? It’s a bonus, right? So if something is a “bonus” it is “in addition to” what they are making as base salary. It is not their salary. It is an extra. ”

    You are right AFW. A bonus is extra and they are never part of my budget.

    If my employer and I have an agreement on bonuses then I expect my employer to honor the agreement. If the company goes bust, then that is my tough luck. I totally accept that.

    Now if the government bails out my employer with no strings attached (a very important point) then pay me my bonus. The government is in effect honoring agreements the employer made.

    If the government attaches strings such as no bonus money, then I have to lump that too.

    This is what concerns me about these bailouts. If the city of Tulsa gets $200 million to build new roads and retrofit bridges then that is where I want the money to go. If the city of Tulsa gets $200 million to spend any way it sees fit, then forget it. That’s asking for abuse.

  10. Jay, NONE of the companies being bailed out right now have any right to public funds. The financial community would not have gone belly-up as suggested; some banks did, in fact, act responsibly instead of throwing credit at everyone who asked for it and not setting up proper fraud prevention departments. The bank I work for is one of the few that is still doing quite well simply because they were responsible.

    Banks that did what they were supposed to do could have (and are working to as they can) propped up the market to a degree while the irresponsible lenders got their just desserts. Bush gave us the original bailout, and the Obamessiah who promised change is giving us MORE OF THE SAME from the very same guy who wrote up the original bailout for Paulsen: Tim Geithner.

    Bend over, folks. Here comes the NEW New Deal.

  11. “NONE of the companies being bailed out right now have any right to public funds”

    Really, Mel? Would your proposed solution have been to let the system collapse (sorry, but I take Lawrence Summers opinion over yours / Sarah Palin’s. He’s a MIT and Harvard grad. No doubt community college is comparable, but…) and let everyone fend for themselves in the ensuing chaos? Survival of the fittest, I guess.

    I’m curious: how would ” proper fraud prevention departments” have prevented highly leveraged credit default swaps?

  12. “Really, Mel? Would your proposed solution have been to let the system collapse (sorry, but I take Lawrence Summers opinion over yours / Sarah Palin’s. He’s a MIT and Harvard grad. No doubt community college is comparable, but…) and let everyone fend for themselves in the ensuing chaos? Survival of the fittest, I guess.”

    Jay? Don’t die of a stroke. I agree with you in concept.

    Our nation needs a banking system the people have confidence in (most important) and a banking system that works. If people don’t believe the banking system is sound (even when it is) then it does not matter so much if the banking system is sound. It’s mainly about perception.

    Our economy would grind to zero if people stashed their cash at home under their beds and in cookie jars. Economic disaster is guaranteed when money does not get put to work. Depositing your money in a savings account is one way of putting it to work. I callt this concept John’s Theory of Monetary Motion. The theory is simple. Money that is not put to work is toxic to any economy.

    Now Jay, you and I can disagree on how the government should intervene and I am certain we probably disagree here and there.

    Cheers!

  13. The system may have faltered, but it would not have collapsed. It was a bad idea and it’s getting worse by the day. I don’t like paying for someone else’s mistakes. Having a degree from MIT and Harvard doesn’t make one correct, Jay. I’ve met ivy-league graduates who can’t form a complete sentence in writing–partly because a lot of ivy-league kids have enough money to pay someone else to do their homework. Bush had an ivy-league education but you called him an idiot.

    Part of the reason for the credit bubble is the fact that banks were required to take on a certain amount of risky debt. Fair Lending took away lenders’ right to refuse to issue credit based on public assistance income or mortgages based on high-risk areas. Several banks, including Bank of America, opened programs allowing those without a valid social security number to obtain lines of credit; they didn’t even need a tax ID number. All they had to do was keep a checking account in good standing for around three to six months and they would be automatically approved for credit, including mortgages.

    That, coupled with the ever-popular trend of identity theft, created a booming business of using credit and mortgages and not paying them back. Credit default is a big deal now because so many people took advantage of the credit system. Do you have any idea how many accounts I and my colleagues close on a daily basis because of ID theft? Do you know how much money is lost to what’s known as bust-out fraud, where someone makes a fake payment to inflate their credit line then maxes it out again before the bank catches on? Many banks don’t have a full fraud prevention unit. They may have a group that works on fraud claims, but proactively preventing fraud could have gone a long way to preventing the situation we’re in.

  14. So, Mel, if I’m to read your lengthy discourse correctly, the recent collapse of AIG, Lehman Brothers, Merrill Lynch, Bear Sterns, et al, was due to a few credit card fraudsters stealing people’s IDs? Oh yeah, there were all those poor people getting sub prime mortgages in the ghetto too. Wow…like David and Goliath! Your grasp of the economics of the situation is impressive. Interesting how you left out any mention of the famed highly leveraged credit default swaps and other risky, exotic financial instruments the banks and brokerage houses got into.

    Somehow I doubt that a person who went to MIT at 16, had parents who were both economists, and an uncle who won a Nobel prize paid too many people to do his homework. That said, if only he had that prized community college edumacation like Sarah Palin he’d be credible, right? Just can’t trust that learnin’.

  15. “Interesting how you left out any mention of the famed highly leveraged credit default swaps and other risky, exotic financial instruments the banks and brokerage houses got into.”

    Jay,

    Mel did say the following:

    “Part of the reason for the credit bubble is the fact that banks were required to take on a certain amount of risky debt.”

    Mel never said risky debt was the entire reason and you are very right about credit default swaps.

    No one single thing caused this collapse.

    I don’t see Jay how you can (or if you are) defending irresponsible lending. Even before the housing bubble, I found it very irresponsible of banks to extend high credit card limits to people making very little money.

    When I was making $30,000 per year in the very early 1990’s, my credit cards (four of them) had a combined limit of $20,000 dollars!!! Even then and now I found that to be irresponsible and foolish. Why?

    In that day the recommended mortgage payment was no more than 28% of your monthly gross wages. But there I was with the ability to run up unsecured debt in the amount of two thirds of my annual wages!!! Please tell me how that ever made sense?

  16. “Please tell me how that ever made sense?”

    Absolutely, John, it doesn’t. It’s borderline insane. And of course irresponsible lending selling ARMs to ill qualified buyers was nuts too. The Democrats in Congress who pushed some misguided notion of “equality” in the mortgage market deserve to be shot. Now, that didn’t mean the banks had to lend to everyone, and it certainly had nothing to do with Phil Gramm and co., as well as the Bush administration, pushing massive and irresponsible deregulation through the financial markets – giving rise to the aforementioned highly leveraged financial instruments.

    So obviously there’s plenty of blame to go around in this lovely clusterfuck we find ourselves in. My point with Mel was primarily to point out the sheer dishonesty and disingenuousness (not to mention ignorance) of her, and many other conservatives, positions that it was somehow the poor and their ARM’s for ghetto housing that got us here. It’s bullshit. But hey, ‘ol Stevie says that the corporate boards know better than me, so maybe I should just let it go.

  17. “The Democrats in Congress who pushed some misguided notion of “equality” in the mortgage market deserve to be shot. ”

    A woman in my parish is a retired loan officer. She never ever had an issue lending to anyone with proper credit and a down payment. Plenty of minority people bought houses.

    She told me it used to work this way.

    The customer would fill out a mortgage application.

    She would review the application.

    If she approved it based on the bank’s lending rules and Federal law, she then did the following.

    She pull out a map of the local area. She’d circle the areas on the map the customer could afford. She would tell the customer the bank will lend on any home inside of the circle on the map. She’d tell the customer good luck with their house search.

    Plenty of good people of all kinds found affordable nice homes that way.

  18. “And I’d prefer you be more concerned about how to be less of a douchebag. Keep on wishing.”

    “Speak for yourself, HR / Accounting flunky.”

    Well, whatever it is you’re allegedly good at, you obviously don’t spend enough time on.

    Tell me, didn’t Christmas break end for the rest of the freshman over a month ago?

    I would have answered sooner but for the fact that I’ve been taking appointments all day. 🙂

  19. Jay = living proof that my favorite Obama joke is not a “joke” afterall.

    “Say did you hear millions showed up to Obama’s inauguration? Yes, and only 20 of them had to call off work.”

  20. No, Jay, I did NOT say that it was solely ID theft that caused the issue, I simply said that prevention would have helped to fix the problem we now have. Read the whole thing, numbnuts, don’t just pick out what you want and put a spin on it.

    PART of the reason…

    Would have HELPED fix…

    Very odd how you do that, I think.

  21. “I would have answered sooner but for the fact that I’ve been taking appointments all day.”

    lol…tell us again, Stevie, how important you are with your little book keeping business again. What is it with the HR and accounting dweebs?

    You’re too funny for words and you don’t even realize it.

  22. “Jay = living proof that my favorite Obama joke is not a “joke” afterall”

    Stevie= Self-hating, sadomasicist, bottom with self important delusions of grandiosity.

  23. “Stevie= Self-hating, sadomasicist, bottom with self important delusions of grandiosity.”

    OMG not a single living liberal has ever been that clever before!

    Ah, maybe I do take my job too seriously.

    It’s only the IRS. Not like any Democrat politicians on Capitol Hill take them serious either.

  24. That’s okay, Jay hasn’t been able to enunciate a single logical point since he got here. He’s been hurling insults non-stop, proving his sophomoric inability to think beyond his emotions.

  25. Keep that head shoved firmly up your ass, Mel. I can only be thankful that delusional morons like you and Stevie are in an ever shrinking minority. That must suck pretty bad knowing that you’re so outnumbered and that’s never going to change.

    Palin 2012!!

  26. Sigh…come on now. Some of us like the intellectual debate and don’t care for this back and forth name calling. I know you all can dish it out and take it. I am glad you can. So, since we can all stand our ground here how about sticking to the issues? Please?

  27. Stevie= Self-hating, sadomasicist, bottom…

    Jay

    Dude, all serious here, you need more sex. I don’t talk about sex. I get me some. The boyfriend and I are always ringing each other up for the booty call.

  28. “Keep that head shoved firmly up your ass, Mel. I can only be thankful that delusional morons like you and Stevie are in an ever shrinking minority. That must suck pretty bad knowing that you’re so outnumbered and that’s never going to change.

    Palin 2012!!”

    Have you ever stood in the middle of a herd of sheep? They’re always the easiest to control and lead.

    Yeah, they make noise. But they never seem to get anywhere.

    So, Jay. I would have to say that you are the one you should feel sorry for (not that you already don’t). Being part of the “majority” doesn’t seem to be getting you anywhere either.

    When it does, be sure to let us all know. Maybe then you’ll have a point to make.

  29. Look, if my accountant is handling my hard earned money, I want him to take his job of handling MY MONEY as seriously as possible.

    I don’t want to spend money I don’t have to, I don’t want to get in trouble for pulling a Geithner or a Daschle. I want the bases COVERED. I want someone who does their job and takes it seriously.

    Also, I want my plumber to take his job seriously. I don’t want pipes busting from his bad practices. I want my mechanic to take his job seriously – my family could die if he doesn’t. I want the cook when I go out to eat to take his job seriously so I don’t get salmonella because the eggs are undercooked.

    In short, I think one of the biggest problems America has today is that too many people don’t take their jobs seriously at all. Even the most menial of jobs should be done with pride in our workmanship.

    I waited tables at Denny’s to get through college and consistently got some of the highest tips of the waitstaff there because I took my job seriously. When I taught in regular schools, my students’ test scores went up by several points because I took my job teaching middle school seriously.

    And now, my children are all a grade ahead of their age group, on their way to speaking multiple languages, and consistently score in the 80 – 90th percentile on standardized testing because I take my job teaching them at home seriously.

    Not enough Americans take life seriously. Life would be much better if we all did.

  30. Lol…whatever, Stevie. It’s great how you’re the king of assumptions and all, but actually I don’t feel sorry for anyone unless they’re sick or have been in an accident. Even moronic blowhards like you only receive my derision despite the fact that your personality defects must make it tough to navigate life. Keep up your quixotic quests like getting Sarah Palin elected (that’s absolutely hilarious) and your ever shrinking minority relevant.

    You and I both know that you’re irrelevant in the scheme of things and that fact absolutely burns your ass – which is why you’re always touting your piddly little book keeping business. You’re hilariously transparent.

  31. “Not enough Americans take life seriously. Life would be much better if we all did.”

    Amen!!!

    ” A job worth doing is worth doing well.” Beverly D’Angelo in Maid To Order with Ally Sheedy.

    My first job was a file clerk at a credit union. Now that was very menial. But, I was the best one they ever had. Those files were perfect.

  32. “Keep that head shoved firmly up your ass, Mel.”

    Sorry if the truth hurts, pal, but since you’ve got your head so far up your own ass that lump in your throat is your freakin’ nose, I’ll take that with a large grain of salt. I point out that you have only hurled insults, and you follow it up by proving my point? Hilarious.

    “You’re hilariously transparent.”

    You know what they say, Jay…when you point a finger at someone else…

  33. “In short, I think one of the biggest problems America has today is that too many people don’t take their jobs seriously at all. Even the most menial of jobs should be done with pride in our workmanship.”

    Amen, sister. And you’re right, in this day and age we don’t know how to value hard work.

  34. “You and I both know that you’re irrelevant in the scheme of things and that fact absolutely burns your ass – which is why you’re always touting your piddly little book keeping business. You’re hilariously transparent.”

    Jay, you’re like an afterschool special. Joining the crowd to fit in, yet you’re the one carrying the books and the only one that gets her bra put in the freezer at sleep-overs.

    Sarah Palin actually had a record of Executive Experience and a record of success and approval. Obama’s approval ratings were primarily focused on one thing, the media’s love for him.

    Just three weeks later – after the worst bill in history has been passed, suddenly that approval rating is starting to diminish while Sarah Palin’s is held strong in Alaska.

    Those are the facts that burn. Without presenting facts, you scream out the sidenotes. You’re like a cheerleader who hasn’t learned the routine.

    So go back to the drawing board and at least know what it is you’re discussing. Otherwise, it is so hard to converse with people like you.

    In terms of insulting tones (the same kind you cry about in the case of Ann Coulter), you are the one frustrated enough in this thread to use them.

    That in and of itself proves something. Think about it hard enough and I guarantee you will have a much better appreciation for the term “transparent.”

  35. “Amen, sister. And you’re right, in this day and age we don’t know how to value hard work.”

    For sure. In 2000 I worked for a firm that openly embraced the Welfare to Work Initiative. What a disaster that was. It was an absymal failure.

    We had numerous entry level jobs that paid full benefits and more important, these jobs lead to bigger and better things within the company. Best of all, we were willing to train!!

    If excuses were worth money then I’d would have earned millions of dollars in 2000. 90% one of these welfare cases had an excuse for everything. Only 10% of them made the cut. The rest had to be fired for time and attendance problems or job productivity problems.

    I tried every way I knew how to accommodate the situations of the staff I was assigned. But I learned quickly if you give an inch, then they will try for a mile. They test you to see if you can be swayed and if you can then they go for it. The bottom line is very few of these people wanted to work any job.

    When it was over I asked myself why as a society we bother with these people? If they don’t want to work then fine, don’t work. But don’t expect me to pay for that lifestyle.

  36. “Jay, you’re like an afterschool special. Joining the crowd to fit in, yet you’re the one carrying the books and the only one that gets her bra put in the freezer at sleep-overs.”

    LOL. But, but, who gets to be the horny cute one who dates the quarterback hero only to learn he is a secret homosexual?

    I’d think I’d rather have the frozen bra.

  37. JAY, one question:

    If the Dems are in control of Congress, why did they need to bring Reps on-board when they had the necessary votes anyway?

    Are they afraid they will falter with this bill and then they will be to blame in about a year and half when the campaigning starts again?

    Obama said in his softball conference the other night, uh, sorry, press conference the other night that we should not so be ideologically driven. Well, why didn’t any Democrats vote against the amendment in the Senate? Hmmm, I guess it was their ideology.

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