Sarah Palin Launches Political Action Committee!

I’ve been so busy the last few weeks, I have not been able to check this.

The gorgeous Sarah began SarahPAC early this month.

Check it out!

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93 thoughts on “Sarah Palin Launches Political Action Committee!

  1. We here in Germany know Sarah Palin to be a moron like your Bush. There will be no way she will win anything outside of her home in the frozen tundra. Maybe she should keep to shooting large animals and pumping out children.

  2. You there in Germany don’t get any more say in American politics than Americans get these days in your country. If you have something intelligent to offer, by all means, please do.

    There are any number of highly insulting things I could say now, but I’ll leave it to you to say something more than “we here in Germany know Palin to be a moron.” Give me specific reasons why and we might just get somewhere.

  3. Palin? Who gives a crap. After her performances with Hannity, Couric, and Gibson, something like 60% of the country thinks she’s brain dead. Say what you want but that won’t change.

  4. Well, Sandra, one might also wonder who gives a crap what you have to say.

    It never ceases to amaze me how many people run around deciding for everyone who should be interesting and who shouldn’t.

    Funny, but I never thought that being just like “everyone” was the overriding goal I should be shooting for.

  5. After those “performances” with Gibson and Couric, I’d be interested in seeing the raw, unedited tapes to see what was edited out for the greater good.

  6. “Palin? Who gives a crap. After her performances with Hannity, Couric, and Gibson, something like 60% of the country thinks she’s brain dead. Say what you want but that won’t change.”

    Well, Sandra, 90% of the country allegedly thinks that Obama did a great job with the media, while only 10% of us paying attention somehow noticed throughout the multiple orgasms Obama was giving to Keith Olbermann and Katie Couric, he had managed to not answer one massive question about policy nor did Katie bother asking him what magazines he reads or for a book report on Supreme Court cases.

    We did notice that Obama claimed that we had 57 states. We also notcied that Biden told Katie that FDR gave a speech on TV during the Great Depression in 1929 where there were no TV’s and Hoover was President. (Other than that they were totally on the mark!)

    We did notice though that Tina Fey’s career sky-rocketed (as she admits), SNL got historic views, the VP speech at the RNC was the most watched speech of the campaign, that the VP debate was watched by twice the amount of people as the inauguration – and that ultra liberals like you would LOVE for everyone to believe that everyone simply tuned in to watch her answer questions like Anna Nicole Smith.

    The fact that you’re holding onto that position only adds more to her appeal, so thank you for showing up to confirm that for us.

  7. “Well, Sandra, one might also wonder who gives a crap what you have to say.

    It never ceases to amaze me how many people run around deciding for everyone who should be interesting and who shouldn’t.”

    AFW, you’re my hero (you too Mel.)

    An excellent point that comes out of what you said. If Palin were not a person of interest, why do “some people” come out of the woodwork to tell us so?

    It’s like liberal talk-show hosts.

    In response to talking about liberals who show up to Ann Coulter speeches and screaming at her, liberals always say that it’s not fair to compare that to the behavior at conservatives who go to Al Franken speeches since the TV cameras are hardly around.

    The funny thing is, I couldn’t care less what Al Franken says at his speeches.

    THOSE are the folks noboby cares about.

    After all, if liberals could gather the kind of interest required to be successful in a free market, they wouldn’t have to run off to Minnesota, steal an election, and work for the government, now would they?

  8. You bring up a very good point, Steve…liberals scream. They hear someone they can’t stand is making an appearance, and they show up and scream at them. They’ve also thrown pies and shaving cream and eggs and all other manner of goop, smashed the windows and slashed the tires of vehicles being used by Republican party reps, and been arrested for setting fires and assaulting people who have Republican signs or bumper stickers up. I haven’t seen a whole lot of conservatives going to such extremes to make sure our opponents know we can’t stand them.

    We just sit back, relax, and enjoy the show. Because we know that in the end we’ll be proven right, and there’s no need for us to scream.

  9. “Is it true Palin boned her husband’s buddy?”

    No. But it IS true that Ken magically has the same I.P. address as “Mort.”

    Unlike Ken/Mort, I guarantee you that at least Sarah Palin had a life at 8:02 on a Sunday morning.

  10. Is it true that Ken obsesses about Sarah Palin’s sex life to make up for his own lack of one?

    And why is it okay and interesting that NYT columnists write about their shower fantasies with the president (the fact that she’s married notwithstanding) and extol the Obamas for “looking like they enjoy sex” but de rigeur to try to reduce the Palins to some kind of caricature because they have proof that they do?

    Seriously. Give it a rest.

    I think, myself, that this ABC news poll showing Republicans are 10 points more likely to be satisfied with their sex lives and marriages than Democrats probably says it all.

    Jealousy.

    http://abcnews.go.com/primetime/pollvault/Story?id=156921&page=4

  11. Yes AFW, polls have been released for years showing that Republicans and Christians have better sex lives.

    It was funny here in Chicago last night, the local news were camped outside of a restaurant where the Obamas were having a Valentines Day dinner.

    They say that about the Obamas, yet Sarah and Todd have had four kids since getting married right out of high school.

    But yeah, liberals only obsess about sex because they are unable to sustain a healthy sex life of their own.

  12. They say that about the Obamas, yet Sarah and Todd have had four kids since getting married right out of high school.

    Five! Five kids!

  13. “But yeah, liberals only obsess about sex because they are unable to sustain a healthy sex life of their own.”

    That’s kind of an odd statement to come from a member of a party that regularly extols “family values” while getting busted with hookers, molesting underaged boys, picking up male prostitutes in airport restrooms, and doing meth with men they finished having sex with after preaching against it from a pulpit…

  14. “We here in Germany know Sarah Palin to be a moron like your Bush. There will be no way she will win anything outside of her home in the frozen tundra. Maybe she should keep to shooting large animals and pumping out children.”

    Heh, this made me chuckle…

  15. Somehow I knew you were going to use that, Robert.

    Okay, a nut lied about being attacked.

    However; I’d like to point out that in terms of frequency, the immaturity rests on your side.

    We are not showing up to Michael Moore or Al Franken speeches to scream and chant.

    We just go to Ann Coulter speeches and watch you guys throw a fit.

  16. “That’s kind of an odd statement to come from a member of a party that regularly extols “family values” while getting busted with hookers, molesting underaged boys, picking up male prostitutes in airport restrooms, and doing meth with men they finished having sex with after preaching against it from a pulpit…”

    Republicans immediately denounced such folks. Mark Foley didn’t have sex with any underage kids and in fact his text messages (IM’s) were with someone who was 19 at the time but also says he had innocent exchanges with him going back three years, yet not one liberal was able to show us those transcripts. It’s funny, liberals wanted Mark Foley’s e-mails read because he was gay but don’t want us wire-tapping Al-Queda.

    Your Gerry Studds actually took a 17-year old page on a trip to Portugal and had REAL SEX way before the internet was invented. You guys still admire him and he received standing ovations afterwards. Seems to me Democrats did not mind his behavior.

    Fact is all folks have shortcomings, but liberals have always made it their business to over-sexualize our culture and have actively tried to stop pro-creation of human beings by supporting abortion and simultaneously making sex very boring.

  17. “Heh, this made me chuckle…”

    I’m sure it did. After all. she’s shooting animals and having children.

    If it were up to your party, she’d be aborting the kids and saving the elk.

  18. “However; I’d like to point out that in terms of frequency, the immaturity rests on your side.”

    I’d much rather be labeled immature than a fascist. Somehow I doubt that Obama would have the secret service “request” that people not hold up signs of protest against him…

  19. “It’s funny, liberals wanted Mark Foley’s e-mails read because he was gay but don’t want us wire-tapping Al-Queda. [sic]”

    If you honestly believe that I feel sorry for you. Foley’s IMs were subpoenaed by Denny Hastert, not liberals, and it had nothing to do with the fact that he was gay (which apparently rehab fixed right up), but everything to do with inappropriate behavior. Who do you think tipped the leadership off to what Foley was doing? The pages did. And if your remark is to somehow imply that liberals are intolerant of gays, I have to laugh a very sarcastic laugh, because even you don’t believe that. Notice how the Democrats welcome a quite openly gay Barney Frank into the congress. Perhaps if your side were as welcoming to your community, Foley wouldn’t have to hide in rehab and deny who he is, just like Ted Haggard.

    “Your Gerry Studds actually took a 17-year old page on a trip to Portugal and had REAL SEX way before the internet was invented. You guys still admire him and he received standing ovations afterwards. Seems to me Democrats did not mind his behavior.”

    Hm, kind of how David Vitter received a standing ovation from your party on what should have been his shameful return to the Senate. (At least Eliot Spitzer had the decency to resign) Which brings me to a great point. Your party doesn’t denounce anyone. Larry Craig served out his full term in the Senate, David Vitter is still there, and as has already been seen, he received an ovation for his disgusting behavior. Please don’t pretend that your party has any integrity whatsoever.

  20. “If it were up to your party, she’d be aborting the kids and saving the elk.”

    Don’t be an idiot, Steve. Me trying to force a woman to have an abortion is just as pernicious as you telling her she has to have it, and therefore would make me no better than you. All I say is it’s her choice to make. Not mine that she abort it, and certainly not yours that she keep it. And God forbid that people not be allowed to shoot helpless animals from a helicopter. What an incredible coward you have chosen to worship…

  21. Greetings from Germany, Gays. We here in Deutschland do not understand your fascination with this obvious imbecile, Palin. In our land she would be relegated to the role of a simple barmaid or a common whore, yet people like this “Steve” above seem to have some unnatural attraction to her. Maybe she is like your Mother, no? Or may be a “hag” or “diva” that the Gays in our country (and yours?) idolize.

  22. Again, Danny Noonan speaks up from somewhere in the former land of the Nazis to spew some sort of drivel about Palin without one single word about WHY he thinks she’s an “obvious imbecile.”

    Robert, I do know the story of Ashley Todd, and I have to ask–how often does that happen? She’s just plain nuts and out for attention. I’m not negating that what she did was wrong, however, one story as compared to the litany of assaults and cases of destruction of property committed by liberals during the last political campaign …?

    How about the bogus list of books that Palin supposedly banned, more than one-quarter of which hadn’t even been published by the time she became the governor? How about Michelle Malkin, Ann Coulter, and other conservative writers being met by liberals throwing pies and eggs during speaking engagements at colleges? How about liberal students shouting down a speaker with a group-effort, profanity-laced tirade at UW Madison?

    Yes, there are nitwits in every group, but I ask again, when was the last time you saw a group of conservatives crash a liberal party with such outrageous antics?

  23. “I’d much rather be labeled immature than a fascist. Somehow I doubt that Obama would have the secret service “request” that people not hold up signs of protest against him…”

    He will. It’s just a matter of time. See, he’s only bought 75% of you now. Sooner or later, he’ll own the other 25%.

  24. “If you honestly believe that I feel sorry for you. Foley’s IMs were subpoenaed by Denny Hastert, not liberals, and it had nothing to do with the fact that he was gay (which apparently rehab fixed right up), but everything to do with inappropriate behavior. Who do you think tipped the leadership off to what Foley was doing? The pages did. And if your remark is to somehow imply that liberals are intolerant of gays, I have to laugh a very sarcastic laugh, because even you don’t believe that.”

    They retrieved e-mails in response to liberal hysteria about a male page talking to a gay guy, yes. I agree, the IM’s (AFTER THE KID WAS 19) were not appropriate. But the e-mails that happened prior were not sexual in nature, which was the Democrats’ basis for “concern.”

    Among other “explicit” causes for concern were:

    “what would you like for your birthday?”

    “send me a picture.”

    Meanwhile, liberals have no problem with a President using an intern as an ashtray or Gerry Studds who took a 17-year old page on a trip and actually inserted his sexual organ into him.

    “Notice how the Democrats welcome a quite openly gay Barney Frank into the congress.”

    It had nothing to do with the fact that he was gay. It had everything to do with the fact that he dated a man who ran an escort service out of his house while he was in Congress – also while he was sending flowers to his other boyfriend at Fannie. Sound like true Democratic behavorial standards to me.

    What matters are the politics to Democrats. They hate the gays when convenient just as they hate the blacks when convenient. But they expect their votes simultaneously.

    “Your party doesn’t denounce anyone. Larry Craig served out his full term in the Senate, David Vitter is still there, and as has already been seen, he received an ovation for his disgusting behavior. Please don’t pretend that your party has any integrity whatsoever.”

    Larry Craig and David Vitter both did what they could by the standards of the law with no promotion from Republicans, the President (at the time), or any of the pundits. I do believe when he received that ovation you mentioned, the majority of Congress were already Democrats. It was a shame because Vitter was an excellent Senator. I say “oh well.” But again, I don’t support him nor does any Republican that matters.

  25. “Don’t be an idiot, Steve. Me trying to force a woman to have an abortion is just as pernicious as you telling her she has to have it.”

    The idiocy does not lie in the fact that you would force anybody to do anything. The idiocy lies in the comparison that anyone would cry about an elk but say “well, it’s you choice!” when it comes to a baby.

  26. “In our land she would be relegated to the role of a simple barmaid or a common whore, yet people like this “Steve” above seem to have some unnatural attraction to her.”

    In your land, she’d be forced to remove make-up like Angela Merkel and cover herself with tent-dresses.

    Lord, I’m tired of liberals ignoring facts but the fact is 70 million people tuned in to watch the VP debate, her RNC speech was the most popular speech given ever, and liberals immediately attacked her.

    As AFW said, for a woman who is allegedly NOT important, I think it’s cute that someone tunes in all the way from Germany to let us know.

  27. By the way, why do we care what comes out of Germany anyway?

    The closest thing to quality to sneak out was “99 Luftballoons” in 1984.

    It’s kind of been downhill since.

  28. “Yes, there are nitwits in every group, but I ask again, when was the last time you saw a group of conservatives crash a liberal party with such outrageous antics?”

    In 2000, when Tom DeLay sent his staffers to demand that the counting of votes in Palm Beach County be stopped. They banged on doors and yelled at the top of their lungs, creating an environment in which it was impossible to do the people’s work. Oh, also in 2004, there was a fairly overt effort to get Michael Moore banned from speaking at college campuses. Granted, there was no food thrown, but trying to silence someone’s first amendment rights is fair more dangerous than a lobbed pastry in my humble opinion…

  29. “What matters are the politics to Democrats. They hate the gays when convenient just as they hate the blacks when convenient. But they expect their votes simultaneously.”

    Seeing as how you’ve got mounds of it, I expect some proof or even one instance to back up your claim. What you’re essentially doing is calling gays and blacks stupid. You see, the African American community votes democratic 98% of the time, and I suspect a very high percentage of the gay community does as well. This is not an accident. They see how people on your side of the aisle treat them, coming up with little slights like constitutional amendments to ban same sex marriage and using local police to turn fire hoses and dogs on colored people (who were entitled to the same God given rights as whites), and fighting the Voting Rights Act of 1964 every step of the way. They see that and say to themselves “I don’t feel welcome in that party, and they won’t get my vote”. It’s pretty simple. But you’re right, the democratic party hates them too and has somehow managed to trick them for nearly fifty years. How dumb did you say these people were?

    “I do believe when he received that ovation you mentioned, the majority of Congress were already Democrats”

    No, you are of course wrong. I have no idea what would possess you to believe that Democrats would give a standing ovation to a disgraced Republican senator. But, the ovation he received occurred at a Republican Caucus luncheon…

  30. “The idiocy does not lie in the fact that you would force anybody to do anything. The idiocy lies in the comparison that anyone would cry about an elk but say “well, it’s you choice!” when it comes to a baby.”

    Wow, Steve, you’ve converted me! I totally see the idiocy of wanting the government to stay the hell out of a woman’s womb. That was idiotic of me, thinking that people were entitled to privacy. Let’s go blow up an abortion clinic together, and then grab some lunch, yeah?

  31. “Lord, I’m tired of liberals ignoring facts but the fact is 70 million people tuned in to watch the VP debate, her RNC speech was the most popular speech given ever”

    Yeah, and we all remember how many records MC Hammer and Vanilla Ice sold too. The fact that someone tuned in to watch a new figure on the public stage means close to nothing, except people were curious. I love how you choose to ignore the very large number of people who gave this as their number one reason for not voting for McCain: Sarah Palin. Sure, she drew a crowd. I would imagine lots of folks were like me, tuning into the VP debate to see her make an ass of herself some more. She did a hell of a lot better than I expected, but then again, they set the bar incredibly low. Look, plenty of people watch cars drive around in circles for four hours in the hopes of seeing a spectacular crash, and I just realized that’s the perfect metaphor for Sarah Palin. NASCAR fans must love her…

  32. “No, you are of course wrong. I have no idea what would possess you to believe that Democrats would give a standing ovation to a disgraced Republican senator. But, the ovation he received occurred at a Republican Caucus luncheon…”

    That’s typical Steve. He consistently gets facts wrong, makes shit up and makes an ass out of himself. He must be fun at parties.

    “NASCAR fans must love her…”

    Rednecks and Appalachian inbreds love Sarah Palin. Mamas bois like Steve too.

  33. “No, you are of course wrong. I have no idea what would possess you to believe that Democrats would give a standing ovation to a disgraced Republican senator. But, the ovation he received occurred at a Republican Caucus luncheon”

    It was a joke…..the mood of Washington changed once Democrats got the majority again.

    Not all the Republicans support Vitter, but all Democrats supported Studds and Clinton.

  34. “Rednecks and Appalachian inbreds love Sarah Palin. Mamas bois like Steve too.”

    Well, I’m not the one crying over dead elk.

    Your admiration, “Mort” (or whatever alias you choose today) is overwhelming.

    I would like to ask though to quit stalking me on Facebook, please. 😉

  35. “I would like to ask though to quit stalking me on Facebook, please. ”

    Must be one of your bone smoking buddies.

  36. “Must be one of your bone smoking buddies.”

    Or it could be one of those Facebook stalkers who pretend that they’re straight and cover up their own homosexuality by using intelligent phrases like “bone-smoking.”

    See Robert? This is an Obama supporter. And this type of stuff happens all of the time. If he were clever, he could have came in and pretended to support Sarah Palin and then tell me how unwelcomed I was in the party.

    But no, you see how angry someone gets when you ask them to stop stalking you while simultaneously disagreeing with them politically. As if we aren’t supposed to already know that “Mort” and “Ken” are not the same people. (as a blog administrator, I am certain you’re family with IP Addresses).

  37. Hello, Gays, it is me again, Danny Noonan from Stuttgart. I wish to ask you why it is you feel Sarah Palin represents the real America. Is it because she shoots moose and coyote dogs? We know that most Americans do not know of any world events outside of their small village and Mrs Palin seems quite similar. Does this make her real?

  38. “We know that most Americans do not know of any world events outside of their small village and Mrs Palin seems quite similar. Does this make her real?”

    Danny, it’s probably because America is the focal point of the entire world. How many Americans do you find on German blogs discussing the policy of Angela Merkel? (though, I admit, she is awesome!)

    You’re thousands of miles away, yet, here you are fully aware of Sarah Palin.

    I think it’s awesome that a woman could be labeled as “Caribou Barbie” but can also make the same namecallers cry when they find out she knows how to shoot and stuff grizzly bears or gives interviews in front of a Turkey slaughter house during Thanksgiving week.

    If someone were to say: “I better not give this interview here, it might be offensive to others” – I am telling you that they are not going to be very effective leaders when it comes to dealing with Al Queda (yes, Robert there are different ways to spell it, some say “Al-Qaida”).

    And I also do not prefer the ones being voted for by those same criers of elk and steer.

    Margaret Thatcher once said: “if your initial goal is to make everyone happy, be prepared to not accomplish much.”

  39. Hello again, Gays. The reason we are aware of Sarah Palin is because after eight destructive years of your joke to the world Bush, we are quite scared that you may select another very dim bulb to the detriment of the planet.

  40. “The reason we are aware of Sarah Palin is because after eight destructive years of your joke to the world Bush, we are quite scared that you may select another very dim bulb to the detriment of the planet.”

    I don’t think you need to worry about her. We Americans are a lot smarter than you give us credit for.

  41. Here comes Danny Noonan again, still not giving a single intelligent word on WHY he thinks Palin is a “dim bulb.” I’d like to remind you, Danny, that while Bush’s economic policies may have been horrible towards the end, after 9/11 nobody hit us again. And I have to ask, why do you always greet us with, “hello, Gays?” Not everyone here is gay, as a matter of fact, and here in America when a straight person refers to a group of people in such a manner, it’s seen as offensive. Talk about stupid…

    Robert…oh, Robert…if you still think that electing Obama was the wise choice, you need to go through and read that “stimulus” bill. And quite frankly, I don’t give two shits what Europeans think of me. Having read some of the backward-thinking ideas being pushed over there, such as hate-speech laws and anti-gun laws and generally making life easier for criminals than for innocent people, I’m not beholden to any of those folks for anything I believe. I don’t tell them how to run their country, even if I have an opinion on their ideals. I will not be told how to live in mine.

    Pardon my Japanese, Steve.

  42. “And quite frankly, I don’t give two shits what Europeans think of me.”

    Amen Mel! I’ll say it again. If someone is going to drive themselves crazy over whether or not Europe likes us, I’d rather them not having the nuclear codes.

  43. “Robert…oh, Robert…if you still think that electing Obama was the wise choice, you need to go through and read that “stimulus” bill”

    I do think it was wise. And by read, do mean actually read, or listen to the likes of Michelle Malkin and Laura Ingraham? Because judging by your uses of phrases like “Generational Theft Act” and “Spendulus”, I’m guessing you’re paying a bit too much attention to those two. Here’s what I don’t get; for eight years you people were all about spending. You added five trillion dollars in debt to the national credit card. Bush blew a trillion dollars in Iraq, and you folks didn’t bat an eye, but now that there’s spending to be done that will actually help people, instead of kill them, you have a problem with it. Why is that? This jobs bill is by no means a panacea, I in no way delude myself into thinking it is. I have the same opinion that many economists have, and that is that this bill is too small. It will take a lot more to get us out of the mess that, frankly, your party put us in. And I do know this: if we elected John McCain, we’d be in a whole world of trouble, because tax cuts (they should actually be called tax deferments, because they are) wouldn’t do shit for this problem…

  44. Steve, it was John Kerry’s “passing the global litmus test” statement that started that for me. The only time America gets involved in telling anybody how to run their country is when the government is killing people in mass numbers. If Europeans are going to start getting a say in our politics, it better damn well go both ways, ’cause there’s an awful lot of stuff they allow that is absolutely unfathomable to me.

    I do pay attention to them, but yes, I did read the bill. It took me quite some time, and I had a headache when I was done, but yes, I read it.

    OUR party? What about Bill Clinton’s hand in deregulation? He can deny it all he wants, but nobody is innocent here. It started with Jimmy Carter, Reagan tried to fix it, Bush Sr. didn’t get the message, and Bill Clinton went back to Carter’s same old crap. Bush Jr. was even worse than Carter. Clinton did away with Glass-Steagall. That act kept commercial and investment banking separate until Clinton tossed it. He also gave us the Commodity Futures Modernization Act. Guess what that did? It exempted all derivatives from federal regulation, including those credit default swaps that you mentioned in a previous post.

    NOBODY is innocent. You cannot pin this on all Republicans any more than we can pin it on all Democrats. The only reason anyone can blame it on Bush is because the bubble finally burst while he was in office.

  45. “What about Bill Clinton’s hand in deregulation?”

    Clinton to some extent bought into the Regan era way of thinking, declaring “the era of big government is over.” Clinton did a lot, A LOT of caving to republicans. Repealing Glass Steagall was probably the most far reaching. It allowed banks to treat Wall St. Like a casino. But guess who authored that? “Foreclosure” Phil Gramm. Republicans have been trying to undo Glass Steagall since its creation.

    “It started with Jimmy Carter”

    You are right, he deregulated the airline industry.

    “Reagan tried to fix it”

    This is where you slip up. Deregulation went on steroids under Reagan, particularly his decision to stop enforcing the Sherman Anti Trust Act, which paved the way for the terribly destructive Telecommunications Act of 1996. See, there are plenty of things to kick Clinton in the ass for doing. I’m not a Democrat, so when legitimate points are brought against democrats, I have no problem calling them on it.

    “He also gave us the Commodity Futures Modernization Act”

    Again, guess who authored that? Phil Gramm. As a matter of fact, he snuck into an omnibus spending bill, so I can’t blame Clinton for that one. My point is, only republicans come up with and actively promote this destructive garbage.

  46. “My point is, only republicans come up with and actively promote this destructive garbage.”

    Promoting free market ideals is not destructive. There are regulators in place already at places like the Security and Exchange Commission which enforce accounting standards to ensure that people aren’t being lied to about their investments.

    There are regulators in Congress (we call them Democrats) who write tax law like Charles Rangel. In the meantime and several years prior, he’s failing to report thousands of dollars in rental income. How about Tom Daschle?

    There are regulators at the IRS that try to enforce the same tax law that our legislators pass and fail to adhere by. Now that the IRS is auditing returns from 2006 based on the capital gains that year and when unemployment was at a record low (all under Bush I might add), none of them have money now because all of that has reversed…in fact many have lost their businesses and are filing bankruptcy because for years they put endless supplies of cash into a nonsense government who continue to shift it out in boatloads to those who contribute absolutely nothing.

    You know what you’re getting (assuming you’ll be lucky enough to find a job) from this massive bill? A whopping $13 a week for the trade-off of a debt that makes up about $30K to $40K among every single American.

    The “poor” who don’t work like you did will get more than you. So when they spend it all, then what? Do you think any of them will go to free night school to get their G.E.D.s or diplomas? Will they take up a trade? Or will they buy a big screen TV and order in every night of the week? As someone who believes in this bill, please tell us how this will help them to help their country.

    The rest is going to federal, state, and local government. So, unless you’re willing to live on welfare or unless you’re lucky enough to fall into a government job of some kind, you WILL feel the affects of this type of socialism. There will be nothing you can do about it.

    We don’t need regulation of every damn aspect of our lives. We need our representatives to watch out for us as Republicans tried doing with the Democrats years ago about Fannie and Freddy (the same ones you think I miraculously forced to talk in a youtube video).

    In 2001, Tom Delay was warning us about gas prices and promoting drilling in Alaska as an effort to aid somewhat as they all saw where gas prices were going to be years later. Liberals said no because of their ties to the environmentalist crazies.

    Then during the McCain/Palin campaign, we kept hearing Biden and Obama tell us that it will take five – ten years even if we all agreed to “drill baby drill!”

    If they had listened to Republicans in the early part of the decade, that wouldn’t have been a problem.

    So what Republicans have tried to do is their jobs in providing warnings and providing guidance throughout all of this but among your Democrats always exist some kind of tie to same wacky organization that prevents ANYONE from working together in a bi-partisan way, just look at what started as the package and because of Republicans got trimmed off before it finally passed.

    This does not excuse bringing in regulators employed by the government at our expense to monitor every damn business in the country.

    Keep regulating and betraying the hand that feeds the government and sooner or later there won’t be any jobs or positions left to regulate at all.

  47. “It is wonderful how preposterously the affairs of the world are managed. We assemble parliaments and councils to have the benefit of collected wisdom, but we necessarily have, at the same time, the inconvenience of their collected passions, prejudices, and private interests: for regulating commerce as assembly of great men is the greatest fool on earth.”

    Benjamin Franklin

    (There’s a reason he’s on the hundred dollar bill)

  48. if you still think that electing Obama was the wise choice, you need to go through and read that “stimulus” bill.

    God knows no one in Congress bothered…

    Which is totally ironic, considering that it was faulty mortgages that sunk the Titanic and got us into this mess. Mortgages signed by people who didn’t understand the terms because they didn’t read the contracts.

    So Congress tries to “fix” this by – wait for it – NOT READING THE CONTRACT!

    I think that’s a winner for sure.

  49. After reading through the above posts, you people with the exception of Robert have to be the most simpleminded, xenophobic, elitist, rationalizing, delusional, assholes on the internet. Too bad this is only virtual reality or I’d spit in your face out of spite.

  50. “In 2001, Tom Delay was warning us about gas prices and promoting drilling in Alaska as an effort to aid somewhat as they all saw where gas prices were going to be years later. Liberals said no because of their ties to the environmentalist crazies.

    Then during the McCain/Palin campaign, we kept hearing Biden and Obama tell us that it will take five – ten years even if we all agreed to “drill baby drill!””

    Gas prices last summer were driven up by Enron-style commodity speculation. That’s a fact. Drilling in Alaska, drill morons drill, Sarah Palin, Tom Delay, etc. were all throwing out Red Herrings and rhetorical bullshit to feed fools like you people the red meat you craved.

    Do you always make things up to suit your positions?

  51. Guten Morgen, Gays! It seems that my observations on your Sarah Palin caused anger for you. Watch out or you may develop health issues.

  52. Too bad this is only virtual reality or I’d spit in your face out of spite.

    Which so nicely proves this point above:

    You bring up a very good point, Steve…liberals scream. They hear someone they can’t stand is making an appearance, and they show up and scream at them. They’ve also thrown pies and shaving cream and eggs and all other manner of goop, smashed the windows and slashed the tires of vehicles being used by Republican party reps, and been arrested for setting fires and assaulting people who have Republican signs or bumper stickers up.

  53. Airforcewoman, are you one of the Gays as well?

    Was it the liberals who used to lynch the blacks and do many hate crimes? Are the liberals responsible for marginalizing minorities and immigrants? No..I think it is the fascists like you and your party. We here in Germany succumbed to fascism once and said never again. You in America have not learned that lesson.

    Mostly you seem like a very ignorant woman. Are you fat as well?

  54. “Airforcewoman, are you one of the Gays as well?”

    “Mostly you seem like a very ignorant woman. Are you fat as well?”

    Danny Noonan – as I stated before, and as you just keep proving…..the only thing of quality to come out of Germany in the last century was “99 Luftballoons.”

    Contribute something more profound or every post will be deleted from now on.

  55. “Promoting free market ideals is not destructive”

    Clearly it is. There should be no denying that, but you’re you, so…
    And a free market was not what was promoted, total laissez faire capitalism was.

    “unemployment was at a record low (all under Bush I might add)”

    Sorry, Steve, but 4.7% is not a record low, especially given the fact that the methods used to calculate unemployment have changed over the years. Underemployment is not taken into consideration, neither is the portion of people who have simply given up looking for work. People who have been out of work for more than two years don’t count as being unemployed somehow, and finally, unemployment numbers now include dead end teenager jobs like McDonald’s and Wal-Mart. So that 4.7 was probably somewhere near 6%, and today’s rate is likely around 12%, certainly over 10%.

    “You know what you’re getting (assuming you’ll be lucky enough to find a job) from this massive bill? A whopping $13 a week for the trade-off of a debt that makes up about $30K to $40K among every single American.”

    Well, first, I am working from home on contract basis, and second, I have to point out again, that this spending is going to create jobs. Where was this sense of righteous fiscal responsibility when George Bush was spending five trillion dollars like it was nothing? If I am to choose between a trillion dollars to kill citizens of a country that never attacked us, or spending close to a trillion dollars to create jobs and get us out of this mess, I’m gonna have to go jobs, Steve. I’m sorry you seem to have a problem with that. It seems that only spending by republicans meets your approval.

    “The “poor” who don’t work like you did will get more than you. So when they spend it all, then what?”

    Then there’s cash flowing into a dying economy. I shouldn’t have to explain this to you. What you should be explaining is how you came to the conclusion that the poor who didn’t work will get more than me.

    “So, unless you’re willing to live on welfare or unless you’re lucky enough to fall into a government job of some kind, you WILL feel the affects of this type of socialism. There will be nothing you can do about it.”

    Steve, please do me a favor: pick up a book, find out what socialism actually is, and stop using ridiculous buzz words. And instead of being your typical anti government self, you need to realize that your way was tried, and it failed. You have no new ideas, so you try to tear down the opposition’s. Obama was right when he said that government is the only entity big enough to get the ball rolling to get us out of this mess. Laissez faire has gotten us nowhere fast, and your solution is to what? Use the same tactics that got us into this mess? Come on, who are you kidding?

    “We don’t need regulation of every damn aspect of our lives”

    The financial sector is a pretty big aspect of life, Steve. You advocate for pure unfettered greed to sustain an economy, it’s been proven to do everything but work, and I am saying that regulation is a fine thing where it’s necessary, this being a beautiful example.

    “We need our representatives to watch out for us as Republicans tried doing with the Democrats years ago about Fannie and Freddy (the same ones you think I miraculously forced to talk in a youtube video).”

    Oh yeah, let’s regulate the once nationalized companies that give loans to middle class folks, but those Wall St. guys, nah. Come on, man! The sole reason that you guys “tried” to regulate them was because they were helping the middle class grow. Meanwhile, you turned a blind eye to the largest casino in the world operating right under your noses. This notion that your party tried to do the right thing is completely absurd. And for the record, I wasn’t implying that you made that video, nerd.

    “In 2001, Tom Delay was warning us about gas prices and promoting drilling in Alaska as an effort to aid somewhat as they all saw where gas prices were going to be years later”

    What? You have got to be kidding me. We were warned about squat. Republicans are shills for the oil companies, pure and simple. That’s why they all clamor for more drilling. And where, you ask, was Hot Tub Tom when the oil companies were gouging customers at the pump? Well, probably crafting more legislation to make it easier for the sex slave industry to operate in the Mariana Islands and helping Jack Abramoff and Ralph Reed steal from Native Americans, that’s where.

    “Then during the McCain/Palin campaign, we kept hearing Biden and Obama tell us that it will take five – ten years even if we all agreed to “drill baby drill!””

    And it would, according to Bush’s dept. of energy. Not only that, the “relief” it would bring us at the pump would be about two cents. Yeah, great investment!

    “If they had listened to Republicans in the early part of the decade, that wouldn’t have been a problem.”

    Yeah, well if Republicans had listened to Jimmy Carter instead of ripping the solar panels off the White House, we REALLY wouldn’t be in this mess…

    “So what Republicans have tried to do is their jobs in providing warnings and providing guidance throughout all of this but among your Democrats always exist some kind of tie to same wacky organization that prevents ANYONE from working together in a bi-partisan way”

    Kind of like the oil companies, the S&L business in the 80’s, the pharmaceutical industry, arms manufacturers and the defense industry, etc, etc. Oh wait, that was you guys!

    “just look at what started as the package and because of Republicans got trimmed off before it finally passed.”

    And you still managed to bitch about it. I should also point out that of the stuff that did get cut, Obama requested be removed. Except the typical republican nonsense, like protection for whistleblowers. (And here I thought Olympia Snowe was a moderate)

    “This does not excuse bringing in regulators employed by the government at our expense to monitor every damn business in the country.”
    It most certainly does. That’s like saying we don’t need security cameras at the 7-11, because the clerks can handle everything themselves. Meanwhile, as soon as you turn your back, the place is getting robbed…

    “Keep regulating and betraying the hand that feeds the government and sooner or later there won’t be any jobs or positions left to regulate at all.”

    Are you really saying that government is biting the hand that feeds (business)? Wow, that is so completely backwards…

  56. “Unregulated capitalism will eventually destroy itself”

    Franklin Roosevelt
    (the reason he was ranked #3 on the greatest presidents list. (funny, your idol Reagan wasn’t even in the top five))

  57. “Too bad this is only virtual reality or I’d spit in your face out of spite.”

    LOL Jenny – Wow, the polite and classy way a liberal has of making a point makes me wonder why I’m not one.

    Out of curiosity, who in the hell are you trying to convince or persuade by that?

    So, in response, I present you with a column titled: “You Can’t Fuel All of the People All of the Time” by the brilliant Ann Coulter (another one I am sure you’d spit at as a diversity-loving liberal.)

    “Liberals complain that — as B. Hussein Obama put it — there’s “no way that allowing offshore drilling would lower gas prices right now. At best you are looking at five years or more down the road.

    Moreover, what was going on five years ago? Why didn’t anyone propose drilling back then?

    Say, you know what we need? We need a class of people paid to anticipate national crises and plan solutions in advance. It would be such an important job, the taxpayers would pay them salaries so they wouldn’t have to worry about making a living and could just sit around anticipating crises.

    But of course we do pay people to anticipate national problems and propose solutions. Some of them — we’ll call them Republicans — did anticipate high gas prices and propose solutions.

    Six long years ago President Bush had the foresight to demand that Congress allow drilling in a minuscule portion of the Alaska’s barren, uninhabitable Arctic National Wildlife Refuge (ANWR). In 2002, Bush, Tom DeLay and the entire Republican Party were screaming from the rooftops: Drill! Drill! Drill!

    We’d be gushing oil now — except the Democrats stopped us from drilling.

    Drilling on only 0.01 percent of ANWR’s 19 million acres was projected to produce about 10 billion barrels of oil. From all domestic sources combined, we currently produce about 1.8 billion barrels of oil per year. To a layperson like myself, 10 billion barrels seems like a lot of oil.

    The other party — plus John McCain — ferociously opposed drilling in ANWR, drilling offshore or drilling anyplace else. Instead of Drill! Drill! Drill!, their motto could be: Kill! Kill! Kill!

    They refuse to believe our abortion studies? I refuse to believe they care about Americans having to pay high gas prices.

    The fact is, Jenny (as much as Robert fights to deny it), while Barney Frank was under the sheets (FRIGHTENING THOUGHT) with his escort-service-running boytoy and simultaneously sending flowers to his other boyfriend at Fannie Mae, Republicans in the House were “screaming from the rooftops” about Fannie and Freddy, just as they were “screaming from the rooftops” six years ago about the rise in gas prices they saw coming.

    What you folks do is so purposeful that it’s sickening – blatantly ignore the efforts put forth, because afterall, it’s much easier to argue for the extreme position of regulating and invading the lives of every business owner across this great land because you belong to a party full of individuals too damned weak to get out there and do anything for yourself.

    Keep your worthless – unemployed spit away from me, please.

  58. Robert, to summarize as Benjamin Franklin indicated:

    If you don’t like free market competition and commerce, then go work for the government.

    We have the Better Business Bureau, the SEC, the IRS, and others across this great land paid to regulate:

    YOU ARE STILL COMPLAINING. The massive regulation already put in place fails. In the end, only strong and intelligent Americans will survive because they aren’t sitting around and waiting for Obama to pay their electric and gas bills (although I wouldn’t mind him paying mine one month).

    The Japanese tried it and it failed. Government bureaucrats can set forth any regulation they want, but there is always a free-market lover who will find a way to legally find a way out of it, rather than blatantly ignoring the reporting of income like your tax-regulating Democrats do.

  59. Hahahaha…Moron Steve…you are such an angry Gay! Maybe your Mother sold herself to make money but its not your fault.

  60. “In the end, only strong and intelligent Americans will survive ”

    How about you Gay Steve? You look plump and sound like a Moron. You will fail.

  61. Okay, seriously Danny, I appreciate having backup, but it’s not necessary to attack people on such a personal level. There are plenty of things to attack Steve for politically, but lowering yourself to such personal attacks doesn’t do anyone any good. Plus, you’re making me look like bad…

  62. Steve, do me a solid and name one piece of legislation authored (or even sponsored) by a Republican whose primary beneficiary was working class people. Just one that benefitted a real person. Not a corporation, not the wealthy, but real working class people. Go!

  63. “How about you Gay Steve? You look plump and sound like a Moron. You will fail.”

    Robert, I am thankful for people like this. The blessing in allowing people like this to speak openly and freely while promoting Obama would only be surpassed by allowing Keith Olbermann to have a national stage where all were FORCED to listen (as a matter of fact, if you must regulate anything, why couldn’t it be THAT?).

  64. “Steve, do me a solid and name one piece of legislation authored (or even sponsored) by a Republican whose primary beneficiary was working class people. Just one that benefitted a real person. Not a corporation, not the wealthy, but real working class people. Go!”

    It’s not their job to do that! Moreover, corporations HIRE THE WORKING CLASS PEOPLE!

    Your President decided to try and sneak in a $3K TAX CREDIT to corporations for hiring full time employees in this economy – was he “helping corporations” by doing that? – By the way, I’m not sure if that tax credit made it to the final bill or not.

    But keeping wiuth your original question, can you explain how the “working class” are benefiting from the stimulus. YOU stand to receive $13 more a week while the real bucks go to the ones who DON’T work. More welfare!

    When will that vicious cycle end?

  65. So what you’re saying, Steve, is that you can’t think one piece of legislation that helps actual people. And saying it’s not the job of the legislative branch of government to do that says a lot about what you the think the government’s function is. The last time I checked, the sole reason for its existence was to promote the general welfare of its citizens. If anything isn’t the government’s job, it’s pandering to the rich and creating loopholes that allow corporations to rape and pillage the planet and screw over the people that make them rich. Your way of thinking is so far off the mark from what the founders intended that it’s unreal. Think about that next time you want to call job creation welfare.

  66. Danny Noonan has proven himself completely incapable of saying anything even remotely relevant, so I give up.

    Jenny, you’re just as bad. Instead of offering intelligent rebuttal, you spew insults (no pun intended). And I gotta tell ya, threatening to spit at a person really garners respect. I don’t agree with liberals but I’m not that angry. I’m more mature than that.

    It strikes me that Robert is the only person even attempting intelligent debate out of a host of liberals. I can’t help but notice that the shortest post in the past six months made the libs descend on us like a pack of wild dogs, all because we admitted we like Sarah Palin. Couldn’t possibly be because you guys are afraid of her, could it?

  67. ” I can’t help but notice that the shortest post in the past six months made the libs descend on us like a pack of wild dogs, all because we admitted we like Sarah Palin. Couldn’t possibly be because you guys are afraid of her, could it?”

    I don’t think that’s it. At least not on my part. I genuinely think she’s dumber than a bucket of hair. But, as I understand it, a lot of people dig that whole ‘down home’ thing. I purposely avoided this thread until I had to respond to your “conservatives aren’t crazy” comment. But yeah, mention her name, and it’s gonna spark a reaction, much like it would in Steve if I started a blog about Dennis Kucinich…

  68. Well, Robert, at least you engage in meaningful conversation, even though we disagree. Every other lib who’s visited has done absolutely nothing more than hurl insults. Not exactly convincing.

  69. “If anything isn’t the government’s job, it’s pandering to the rich and creating loopholes that allow corporations to rape and pillage the planet and screw over the people that make them rich. ”

    But they don’t pander to the rich. From experience, one person I know has been going through an audit for the last few months. They have done everything they could to try and squeeze more money of this taxpayer. This taxpayer employed MANY individuals through the many business ventures. This taxpayer has gone through this with the government for the last 7 years FOUR different times.

    This taxpayer doesn’t cheat and has good years and bad years like all others, but because there is a few extra zeros on the income “some” years, they harangue this person like you wouldn’t believe.

    This is borderline harrassment, but there is nothing that can be done about it.

    You really do not know what you speak here and if you really did see the flipside of government intervention and how it can affect the well-being of all stakeholders involved, you just might sing a different song. Truth be told, someone needs to “regulate” the IRS.

    Promoting our welfare does not mean they take control of all the buttons. I have no problem for the government handing out fishing poles. Fishing poles = tax cuts for corporations, businesses, investors, and those with the extra money to spend it so they can – in an American way – provide opportunities to others and donate to their favorite charities by choice.

    It does not mean creating Government bureaucrats to act as regulators to real people who work for a living and earn their status as free American citizens who have a set of choices they live by.

  70. Fishing Pole also can = a separate fund set aside for the true victims of the world when every ditch-digging job is taken (notice how the illegals come into this country and manage to find work immediately) when every position is filled at McDonalds or Burger King, when every seat in free-public night-school has been taken, when every hospital emergency room stops refusing to see patients even though they are bound by law not to, when every Salvation Army funded by good-hearted Americans is closed down, when every state has handed out every last penny of financial aid possible to the most un-willing and un-motivated people.

    It is then and only then that the money used from such “funds” should be disbursed to the “needy” from the United States Government.

    Morever; please do a search in the last five tax years alone at the HUNDREDS of billion dollars of unrecoverable EIC (when folks took the credit or claimed kids that weren’t theirs, etc.). Of course the IRS can audit those folks, but what will happen? That money is spent now and gone. Those people don’t save money or have holdings that can be garnished by the IRS.

    My client described above and many others alike foot that bill Robert because our Government “promoted the welfare” of some while turning their backs on the ones who make it all work in the first place.

  71. Steve, you’re a fucking moron! Turned their backs? Look at the statistics of income growth for the wealthy over the past eight years? Have a heart attack and die, motherfucker!

  72. Have a heart attack and die, motherfucker!

    Yet another example of the ever so sweet countenance of the left.

  73. “This taxpayer has gone through this with the government for the last 7 years FOUR different times. ”

    I know you have to respect client confidentiality, but what line of business is this person in?

    The only thing that comes to mind for me is a business that has a higher volume of cash sales. It’s too easy to skim from an all cash business.

    The other things that comes to mind is he is self employed and loses money more often that he makes it. It’s not the government’s job to endlessly subsidize people (through lower income taxes) who are not good at running businesses.

  74. Juan, Jay…thank you for accentuating my point for me.

    There is still only ONE liberal who has made even the slightest attempt at engaging us in meaningful, intelligent debate. The rest just scream and hurl insults.

  75. Goddamn, it is possible to have a real fucking debate in here?! This is getting ridiculous. The lesson here, Steve, is don’t post anything regarding Sarah Palin. I understand this is your blog, and you have every right to post whatever you like, but I think it’s the only way to avoid nonsense like this…

    P.S. Don’t die, I’d have no one to bicker with!

  76. Steve, tax cuts for corporations is not a fishing pole, it’s a handout, that’s all. When you give money to those who are already doing quite well, I would not call that a fishing pole. And the rich most certainly have been pandered to. Giving tax cuts to the top 1/10 of 1% of income earners is merely giving money to someone who won’t spend it. I’ll say again, if tax cuts are a priority, give them to the middle class. Give them to the people who spend 100% of their income. I guarantee that money will be put back into the economy. Where do you think those cuts to the rich go? Into Swiss bank accounts or money market accounts, or some international holding firm. It doesn’t do what it’s intended to do. And someone does regulate the IRS, they’re called the Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration.

    “notice how the illegals come into this country and manage to find work immediately”

    Which is proof positive that in this country we have an illegal employer problem, not an illegal immigrant problem. They get work right away because the people hiring them know they can get away with paying them next to nothing. I would submit to you that in order to fix that problem, (seeing as how illegal immigration is almost impossible to eradicate) employers should be forced to pay immigrants the same wage they would pay anyone else, therefore removing the incentive to hire illegals. If that happened, you’d see people returning to Mexico in droves. Now, I realize that’s a lofty expectation to shoot for, given the fact that laws would have to be bent to allow illegals to stay here in the first place, but the meat of the argument still stands. Fix the hiring problem, you fix the immigration problem.

    “when every state has handed out every last penny of financial aid possible to the most un-willing and un-motivated people.”

    Here’s the problem I have with this; you, again, are making an assumption that the worst case scenario is the norm. Sure, there will be people who are just content with being unproductive members of society, but does that mean that we shouldn’t have a social safety net at all? That makes no sense to me.

  77. “Steve, you’re a fucking moron! Turned their backs? Look at the statistics of income growth for the wealthy over the past eight years?”

    I’ve always loved this argument. Were they wealthy before they grew? Or were they middle class and did they become wealthy?

    These people put folks to work and gave them lives. Most of them were happy – including all the employees at Walmart liberals cry about. There was work for folks and they were handed opportunity. You work during the day, you go to night-school – you can earn entire degrees online and pay the exact same tuition that you would at a ground university. Most colleges nowadays offer free daycare for mothers.

    This country has done NOTHING but to promote opportunity for all.

    To pretend otherwise, Juan, makes you exactly the type of person required to speak with such eloquence.

  78. “I know you have to respect client confidentiality, but what line of business is this person in?

    The only thing that comes to mind for me is a business that has a higher volume of cash sales. It’s too easy to skim from an all cash business.

    The other things that comes to mind is he is self employed and loses money more often that he makes it. It’s not the government’s job to endlessly subsidize people (through lower income taxes) who are not good at running businesses.”

    John,

    It’s one person with different hands in different ventures, but each venture provides economy to many others including jobs. As I said, some years are great, some are bad.

    But it doesn’t stop with this one alone. There is another who buys into franchises of one particular business. Going from Wisconsin, to Chicago, to Texas, to California, etc. etc. etc. – this person is also harrassed.

    You’re correct about the confidentiality. In point of fact, the IRS requires us to say “my alleged client” – so I cannot even though there are a million franchises in each one of those states, that’s as far as I can go. 😉

    They also require us to lock our terminals up to posts in case we get broken into and place encryption software onto all of our PC’s.

    It’s unreal.

  79. “Sure, there will be people who are just content with being unproductive members of society, but does that mean that we shouldn’t have a social safety net at all? That makes no sense to me.”

    Social safety net for all? No. If someone can work and chooses not to then go for it. But, don’t expect me to subsidize that. It’s morally wrong to expect other people to pay your way because you are too lazy to get a job and keep it.
    No offense Robert but it is nuts to expect any society to tolerate one deadbeat or an army of them. Even if the cost to taxpayers is one cent per person for that, it is still wrong.

    If I learn I can do as well or better by being a taxpayer supported deadbeat then why bother working?

    If someone can’t work because they are disabled then yes, provide a safety net for people in that mess.

  80. “Social safety net for all? No. If someone can work and chooses not to then go for it. But, don’t expect me to subsidize that. It’s morally wrong to expect other people to pay your way because you are too lazy to get a job and keep it.”

    So, it’s morally superior to scrap a program that helps millions of people to stop the small number of those who abuse it? This is exactly the type of mentality I’m talking about. You want to throw the baby out with the bath water because of that tiny number of people, meanwhile hurting countless others in the process. That, in my opinion is morally wrong. That’s like the person who refuses to give money to the homeless guy on the corner because they saw some douchebag on Dateline who drives to the corner in his Mercedes, making his living that way. I give money when I have cash on me. What that person does with it is between them and God. Once it leaves my hand, the moral responsibility passes to that person to feed themselves instead using it to get their next fix. I’m not the poor police, and neither are you. Once that moral “obligation” is met, it’s out of your hands. If you believe that good things happen to good people, like I do, hey, your reward is in Heaven. If someone chooses to fuck that off, it’s on them, not you. That’s just how I look at the social safety net, just on a bigger scale…

  81. Robert, what we’re suggesting is that greater blocks be put in place to stop those who abuse the system. There are people who openly brag about taking their kids to the welfare office on their 18th birthdays to apply for their own welfare handouts. I have talked to some of them.

    I have also worked with people who drew social security disability benefits while performing back-breaking work they were getting paid well for. This is VERY illegal, but there are very few safeguards in place to stop it from happening.

  82. “Once it leaves my hand, the moral responsibility passes to that person to feed themselves instead using it to get their next fix. ”

    It’s not that cut and dried.

    When that homeless person uses your spare change to get his next fix and overdoses, the EMT has to take care of that mess. The ER has to take care of that mess. Your moral responsibility doesn’t stop with your choice. If you want to help homeless people then donate to organizations that help homeless people.

    No, I don’t favor scrapping social programs that help millions of people. As Mel said there are not enough safeguards in place to keep people from abusing these programs.

    I see social progams as a handup not a lifestyle.

    I can see a person on welfare staying home all day when his or her children are babies and toddlers. But once they are in school, holding a part time job while the kids are in school is not too much to ask. When the kids reach middle or high school, full time work should be the expectation. There is no reason to sit at home all day with kids in their teens. But people do that and they should not do that.

  83. “It’s not that cut and dried.”

    Yes, it is. It’s not my responsibility to baby the needy, and make sure they get what they need. I do my part by giving what I can. Now, if I’m close, I can go get food for them, if I suspect they’re abusing alcohol or controlled substances, and sometimes I do. But when I give cash from my car window, it’s not my job to make sure that money is used for food. Giving is my contribution, not babysitting.

    “Your moral responsibility doesn’t stop with your choice”

    Again, yes it does.

    “I see social progams [sic] as a handup not a lifestyle.”

    You’ll get no argument from me there, but I don’t ever take it upon myself to rally against programs due to the abusers because I believe they are few and far between. That may vary depending on geographic location, but on the whole, I believe I’m right. So while I have just as much of a problem with people who leech, I know it’s not the norm, so I don’t bother going on crusades against welfare recipients. And I agree with Mel as well, there should be more safeguards in place to curb defrauding these programs. One I think would go a long way would be drug testing. I don’t think it’s too much to ask that someone asking for assistance be required to pass a drug test. I’ve had to pass one to get a job once, so why not for welfare? So while, in your mind, the lifestyle of welfare is a norm, in mine, it’s the hand up…

  84. “But when I give cash from my car window, it’s not my job to make sure that money is used for food. Giving is my contribution, not babysitting.”

    You might feel better by giving a buck to some guy standing on a traffic median strip.

    If you ask any person who runs a homeless shelter if giving money to homeless people is a good idea, then that person will tell you that is not a good idea. Give the money to a homeless program that helps people in need the right way.
    The police will tell you the same thing too.

    I like your idea of drug testing for people on public assistance. Where I live people who live in subsidized housing are under a One Strike lease. Any drug activity that happens in that apartment is grounds for automatic eviction.

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