Oh Really: Obama and Iran

Well kids – it looks like it’s time for another game of “Oh Really?” (conservative-style).  The subject of this edition?  The illustrious Mr. Obama.

The messiah – having solved the economic crisis, lowered the sea levels, ended poverty, and achieved global harmony – decided to turn his focus to more leisurely endeavors.  Things like filling out his NCAA basketball bracket, making fun of the handicapped with Jay Leno on national television and making sweet videos for the Iranians.  This last one really blew my mind.

Get this line of bull. 

President Barack Obama is reaching out to the Iranian people in a new video with Farsi subtitles, saying the U.S. is prepared to end years of strained relations if Tehran tones down its bellicose rhetoric….

“So in this season of new beginnings I would like to speak clearly to Iran’s leaders,” Obama said in the video. “We have serious differences that have grown over time. My administration is now committed to diplomacy that addresses the full range of issues before us, and to pursuing constructive ties among the United States, Iran and the international community….”

In his message Friday, Obama had a warning for Tehran: “This process will not be advanced by threats. We seek instead engagement that is honest and grounded in mutual respect.”

“You, too, have a choice. The United States wants the Islamic Republic of Iran to take its rightful place in the community of nations,” Obama said. “You have that right, but it comes with real responsibilities, and that place cannot be reached through terror or arms, but rather through peaceful actions that demonstrate the true greatness of the Iranian people and civilization.”

So, Mr. Obama – you think that 30 years of US policy aimed at Iran is wrong-headed and stubborn?  Ronald Reagan, George HW, George W and, yes, even Bubba were misguided in their attempts to punish Iran for their support (financial and military) of terrorist groups.  The Iranian calls for the destruction of Israel were just silly little words.  And Iran’s insistance on pursuing nuclear weapons is just a little misunderstanding.  After all they are just a “tiny country” that poses no threat, right?

OH REALLY?????

And so – Mr. Obama, Mr. President, Barry ole pal – you’re gonna undo 30 years of “misguided” US policy towards Iran by making a sweet, precious video.  You’re going to extend the hand of friendship to Iran’s theocratic thugs.  They just need to be not-so-mean – play nice, say nice things about others, and maybe smile a little more.  That’ll solve everything, eh?

OH REALLY????

Well, buddy.  Iran’s supreme dude, responded to your video message.  You know what he said?

Khamenei set the bar impossibly high — demanding an overhaul of U.S. foreign policy, including giving up “unconditional support” for Israel and halting claims that Iran is seeking nuclear arms. Iran insists its nuclear program is only for peaceful energy purposes.

“Have you released Iranian assets? Have you lifted oppressive sanctions? Have you given up mudslinging and making accusations against the great Iranian nation and its officials?” Khamenei said in a speech in the northeastern city of Mashhad. The crowd chanted “Death to America.”

“He (Obama) insulted the Islamic Republic of Iran from the first day. If you are right that change has come, where is that change? What is the sign of that change? Make it clear for us what has changed.”

Oh no.  Sounds like they aren’t gonna play nice, Mr. Obama.  Of course – it wasn’t all bad for you.

Still, Khamenei left the door open to better ties with America, saying “should you change, our behavior will change, too.”

Well, there you have it, Barry.  All we have to do is concede that the US has been wrong for 30 years and change our ways.  Just denounce Israel, back off the nuclear thing and turn a blind eye to Iranian support for Hamas and Hezbollah.  That shouldn’t be too hard for you.  You already have your folks kissing Syria’s rear-end, and you’re going to give the Palestinians nearly 1 billion of American taxpayer dollars (we don’t need that money anyway).  So, acquiescing to Iran’s demands just seems to follow the natural course of things.  Then all the radical Islamist guys over there will love us and stop killing us.  And we will all have you to thank, Mr. President.

Let’s take a break now.  The point of “Oh Really?” is to point out that someone has lost touch with any semblance of reality.  Obama has reached that point.  He has gone and humiliated the United States with this garbage, making us appear weak and, quite frankly, ignorant.  You want mutual respect from Iran, Barry.  Did you hear any respect from Khameni?  I sure as hell didn’t. This is unforgivable.

Mr. Obama – there have been many Euro-liberals before you who have tried this approach with Iran and their ilk.  They thought that we just weren’t open enough.  We just needed to try and be understanding, culturally-sensitive and open to dialogue.  Where the hell did that get any of them?  Iran’s behavior has not changed despite this kowtowing, ass-kissing type of message.  You think this will all change just because it came from you, Mr. Obama?  I realize that you might believe it will.  After all – you are the messiah.  And you are accustomed to the adulation and adoring crowds who take your every word as gospel.  Hope and change, dude. Hope and change.

Well, here’s a message for you.  You and the Ivy League nerds that comprise your administration are naive at best and dangerous at worst.  Your socialist/marxist professors indoctrinated you with worthless, failed economic theory.  They made you believe that a socialist, utopian economy and social structure could actually work despite the fact that it has failed over and over again.  Similarly, you guys were brainwashed by American-hating “educators” who railed against those damned neocons.  They taught you that you must be embarrased by your nation.  They threw around phrases like “social justice” and “hegemony” to emphasize the need for your guilt.

And, so, it leads you to do something as shameful and ridiculous as this.  The slap in the face that you received from Iran should be a lesson to you.  But I doubt you learn that lesson.  You and your kind are oblivious and blind.  There is no hope for you.  The only hope is that your presidency is short and that the damage you do can be undone by those who come after you.

 

 

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41 thoughts on “Oh Really: Obama and Iran

  1. I kept getting re-routed to a page all night last night that said my subscription was up…maybe I was holding my mouth wrong.

    Yeah, Philip, I read about this thing on my local news site, azcentral.com, this week. I was absolutely flabbergasted. Carter didn’t even have to die, he’s already been reincarnated.

    God help us.

  2. I really love how you people are so quick to attack those who want peace when your solution is to just kill everyone. Good luck with that…

  3. No one said anything about killing. The only ones who want to kill are the terrorists that are supported by the Iranian mullahs. That’s the whole point. You can’t make peace with Iran under its current leadership. All you can do is compromise your principles and make concession-after-concession without getting anything in return. Even then it won’t be enough. Khameni illustrated that point wonderfully in his reponse.

  4. So what Robert? You ignore what the opposition is saying? Do you even know the true meaning of the word anymore?

    “you people” used towards someone who don’t want you dead versus someone who couldn’t care less if your throat is slit really makes me gag.

    The opposition clearly told you to take your “peace” and screw off. How clearly does he have to say it to you!?

    But you’re right. Attacking GW Bush, hating Ann Coulter, and using incredibly boring campaign slogans like “the last eight years” I am sure will make the murderous darlings want to play checkers with us someday.

  5. “I really love how you people are so quick to attack those who want peace when your solution is to just kill everyone. Good luck with that…”

    As one of those people as you put it, how about a different view.

    In the late 1970’s the nation of Vietnam invaded Cambodia. For years we told the communist government of Vietnam to get out of Cambodia and then we’ll talk. Guess what? Vietnam eventually did what we required. Things have changed for the better for Vietnam and the U.S.

    Preconditions work Robert. I don’t fault the concept of reaching out to Iran. What I do fault if this notion of sitting down at the table without preconditions.

    We’ve already had one world leader say, “Peace in our time.” We don’t need another world leader repeating that doomed phrase.

  6. “Carter didn’t even have to die, he’s already been reincarnated.

    God help us.”

    Amen to that. Something tells me Obama will be better known for what he did after his Presidency than what he did during his Presidency. It’s not supposed to be that way. But sadly I think it will be yet again.

    I do applaud much of what former President Carter did after his term in office. What he has done does not erase the horrible mess he made while he was in charge. He can build one million homes for poor people. That is a great thing. But, that won’t erase his miserable failure as leader of our nation.

  7. “You want mutual respect from Iran, Barry. Did you hear any respect from Khameni? I sure as hell didn’t. This is unforgivable.”

    This is exactly what happens when someone who is not experienced enough for the job gets the job. Obama might have been good at running the corner 7-11. But, he needs more experience before he tries to run Wal Mart.

    On the job training works at Burger King, Home Depot and GM. But, our President should never have on the job training as President.

  8. “I do applaud much of what former President Carter did after his term in office. What he has done does not erase the horrible mess he made while he was in charge. He can build one million homes for poor people. That is a great thing. But, that won’t erase his miserable failure as leader of our nation.”

    Actually John, Carter did a lot to undermine GW in the Middle East. I have little respect for the man. He compared Israeli policy in the West Bank to South African apartheid. He wrote a book called “Palestine: Peace Not Apartheid.” He has demonized Israel at every turn and has done little to make the situation in the Middle East any better.

    When he wasn’t taking pot shots at GW, he was spouting garbage aimed at enabling terrorists and tearing down Israel. He’s as much of a failure as a private citizen claiming to act as an “ambassador” as he was during his presidency.

  9. “You and the Ivy League nerds that comprise your administration are naive at best and dangerous at worst. Your socialist/marxist professors indoctrinated you with worthless, failed economic theory. ”

    I think this line itself deserves the annoying “OH Really1?!?!??!?!?!?!1111”

    What are you insinuating here? Don’t blast the Ivy League because I’m a hundred percent sure you don’t know what your talking about. Professors teach information, its up to the students to make something of it. These Ivies teach many different approaches to economics, from Keynesian, Neoclassical, supply-side, etc. Really now? Watch your implying. Your posts are taking on a dash of McCarthyism.

    And if I remember your golden idol Coulter graduated from on them.

  10. “So what Robert? You ignore what the opposition is saying?”

    No, but you obviously fail to realize that normal relations have to start somewhere. You’re clearly content with not trying at all, and since the president tried once, with words, that’s enough for you and you’re more than happy to either bomb them all into oblivion or “kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity”

    ““you people” used towards someone who don’t want you dead versus someone who couldn’t care less if your throat is slit really makes me gag.”

    Nobody cares what makes you gag. Plenty of countries have had problems with our foreign policy and wished death on us. Does that mean you give up on the prospect of peace in favor of bombs? Two equally hard headed ideologues would guarantee stagnation, which, based on your comments, is just what you want. I’m sensing that you’re pissed that Obama isn’t a hard headed ideologue…

    “But you’re right. Attacking GW Bush, hating Ann Coulter, and using incredibly boring campaign slogans like “the last eight years” I am sure will make the murderous darlings want to play checkers with us someday.”

    You can’t be this dumb. Offer up a solution instead of keeping your head lodged firmly up your ass. War is not the answer. You people (yes, you people) love to sit around and bash Jimmy Carter, blaming him for every problem the Middle East has seen, in spite of the fact that he tried to broker peace (and actually succeeded in the case of Egypt and Israel, but heaven forbid you jackals mentions that). You need a new a new slogan, because cursing democrats for wanting peace is getting old. You did the same thing with Clinton. He brokered peace in Ireland, and you can’t persecute the guy enough. Name me one fucking Republican since Eisenhower who was at all interested in bring peace to foreign countries instead of opting to drop bombs in the name of “democracy”. It must be nice to hide behind rhetoric when your dismal record won’t do the trick.

  11. “What are you insinuating here? Don’t blast the Ivy League because I’m a hundred percent sure you don’t know what your talking about. Professors teach information, its up to the students to make something of it. These Ivies teach many different approaches to economics, from Keynesian, Neoclassical, supply-side, etc. Really now? Watch your implying. Your posts are taking on a dash of McCarthyism.

    And if I remember your golden idol Coulter graduated from on them.”

    1. Ann is not my idol. Steve and I disagree strongly on Coulter. She doesn’t do it for me.

    2. You must be out of your ever-loving mind if you believe that the education received on university campuses is unbiased. And the Ivy League, Northeastern campuses are rife with unapologetic leftists who degrade any person or any student with a conservative opinion. I’m pretty sure you have no idea what you are talking about.

    Young people in these institutions are being brainwashed by left-wing ideologues posing as educators. Yeah, a contrary opinion or theory may come up in discussion or in the text book – but with plenty of commentary from the professors. Honestly, the idea that the elite colleges and universities are “open-minded” or level is ludicrous. Try again, dude.

  12. Michael, Philip insinuated absolutely nothing. He just came out and said it. That’s why we love ‘im.

    Robert, war isn’t always the answer, but you can’t say that it has never been the solution, either. It was the only solution during WWII. Can you think of some other way we could have stopped Germany, Italy and Japan from taking over the whole world. Clinton didn’t broker a damn thing in Northern Ireland, he just wrote up an accord. You don’t hear much about it on the news anymore but splinter militant groups are still killing people and the British Army is still occupying the region.

    Here’s one: NIXON. Richard Nixon singlehandedly returned to China and restored diplomatic ties with them. He also ended the Vietnam war, something JFK started and Johnson escalated. Nixon absolutely was interested in peace and he proved it.

  13. “Plenty of countries have had problems with our foreign policy and wished death on us. Does that mean you give up on the prospect of peace in favor of bombs? Two equally hard headed ideologues would guarantee stagnation, which, based on your comments, is just what you want. ”

    O.K. Robert. Just what do we allow Iran to continue doing before we sit down at the table with them?

    Do we wait until they stop funding terrorism? Do we wait until they stop calling for the destruction of Israel? Maybe we sit down when they abandon their nuclear program?

    Lines have to be drawn somewhere. I think Obama wants to move the line too far in Iran’s favor. If we sit down with Iran now as things are, then what is to stop any other country from starting or continuing similar things as a method to improve relations with the U.S.? How many people have to suffer so despotic dictators can get what they want?

    As I mentioned we got what we wanted from Vietnam by standing hard. Apartheid ended in South Africa because freedom loving nations said enough. There are times when a nation has to be hard headed for the right reasons. When it comes to Iran, this is one of those times.

    I know Iran wants legitamacy and respect from the West. Every nation should have that. But such things are not automatic. They have to be earned.

  14. I thought I’d too two more examples on the table.

    Robert Mugabe of Zimbabwe and Kim Jong Il of North Korea are two examples of diplomacy gone bad. Both of those men should have been removed from power long ago. But they are going strong because the rest of the world won’t take a firm stand.

    Be careful what you wish for. You just might get it.

  15. “He’s as much of a failure as a private citizen claiming to act as an “ambassador” as he was during his presidency.”

    I do admire President Carter’s work with Habitat for Humanity. That is one bright spot in his life. Former Presidents with far more success and popularity have achieved far less after leaving office.

  16. “And the Ivy League, Northeastern campuses are rife with unapologetic leftists who degrade any person or any student with a conservative opinion. I’m pretty sure you have no idea what you are talking about.”

    Hmm really? I’m pretty sure I go to one of these “radical” schools. So I’m pretty sure that I know what I’m talking about. Good job.

    Conservatives have a voice. Because our universities believe in an unbiased education, which also means education about the world from the world point of view. We aren’t being taught simple concepts of democrats versus republicans, rather domestic policies in an international context. Conservatism and Liberalism are but singular aspects in a multifaceted education.

    So no, my teachers aren’t indoctrinating us. They are giving us a different point of view. One that isn’t looking from a head stuck up his own ass.

  17. Kudos to you, Michael. Maybe your school doesn’t follow the pattern. Congrats. But the empirical data is against your experience.

    I received my graduate degree from Ohio University – jokingly referred to as the Cal-Berkley of the Midwest. I was protected in my department by a couple of professors and due to the novelty of being gay and conservative.

    The PC movement had its founding in higher education. And the elite universities and colleges attract the most left-wing faculty including former radicals. If you deny the fact that these campuses are hotbeds of liberal indoctrination, then you must be in denial.

    I’ve been there, interacted with students from these colleges/universities and know firsthand. I’m calling “bullshit” dude.

  18. The only thing I’m pointing out right now was your stereotypes of our schools which is a fallacy. I go to Brown University. There is hardly a group on campus, or class on campus, that can agree on any subject matter you choose. Our Queer Alliance group, one of most “radical” (as inane as that label is) groups on campus can’t even agree on what gay rights are. So regardless of whatever your interactions were with students they were not in any way indicative of the “ivies” as a group, and neither do I.

    I just refuse to allow you to group and stereotype a sports league with buzz words just to support whatever claim you were making.

  19. It’s been my experience that most people don’t realize when they’re being indoctrinated. I’ve heard ivy leaguers claim the Marines are indoctrinated, but the Marines I know flatly deny it. And I’ve met plenty of ivy leaguers who swear they chose their own beliefs and weren’t practically brainwashed by their professors.

    Even at a state university, much like Philip, the only reason I ever got away with saying outrageous conservative things was the fact that I was a lesbian.

  20. Ok Michael – now that we’ve settled down, we’re getting somewhere. I’m not talking about campus organizations or classes. I am talking about the professors who influence the kids that they are teaching. It would be difficult and silly for anyone to deny that the people who are educating students in the elite universities are (overwhelmingly) very much to the left. And these folks don’t keep their opinions out of the class room. This is a debate that has been going on for decades. Most of academia (especially in elite institutions) is inherently liberal and often radical.

  21. Following your logic …

    Then all of the top policy makers, executives, the majority of the past half-dozen or so presidents… are all flaming liberals? Even the conservative ones that were sooo “indoctrinated” even after their education?

  22. Wrong Michael. There are those of us, like myself, who go into those places and still come out with our principles and beliefs intact. That’s why you have some Ivy League conservatives (just a few).

  23. Maybe there is a bit of value to the fact that with more education people tend to become more liberal 😉

    Haha. Don’t waste your time quoting and arguing about my earlier point. Just poking fun.

    Lets take an example though:

    My History of the Modern Middle East professor was a politician in Turkey. He is Turkish. He taught us from historical sources, giving us a point of view that was glazed over by Americans. The facts are indisputably correct. Is this the “indoctrination” you were talking about? Perspective?

  24. “Maybe there is a bit of value to the fact that with more education people tend to become more liberal ”

    Bingo!

  25. “It was the only solution during WWII.”

    Of course it was, we were attacked. Legitimate war. Doesn’t count.

    “Clinton didn’t broker a damn thing in Northern Ireland, he just wrote up an accord”

    See, denial.

    “Richard Nixon singlehandedly returned to China and restored diplomatic ties with them”

    Nixon’s role in China is arguable. China was a proxy enemy, merely because communism was considered a scourge. I don’t recall reading about Nixon accusing China of funding terrorists or threatening to use nukes on the US.

    “He also ended the Vietnam war, something JFK started and Johnson escalated”

    That’s a joke. Nixon left Vietnam because the public demanded it, not because he wanted peace. Don’t you think he would have stayed there if he thought he could win? There were some good things to come out of his presidency, such as the EPA and OSHA, but Vietnam, nah…

    By the way, Vietnam started in 1959, before JFK, and we’ve had advisers in the country, planning for war since 1950.

  26. “I just refuse to allow you to group and stereotype a sports league with buzz words just to support whatever claim you were making.”

    Hey Michael, speaking of Ann Coulter, can you tell us the last time a a liberal speaker was attacked on a college campus during a speech?

    I can name about numerous conservatives including Coulter, Buchanan, the Minutemen who have not been – shall we say – welcomed with dignity.

    Tell colleges to stop giving professorships to lunatics like Bill Ayers and perhaps we’ll turn our “stereotypes” around.

    Otherwise, don’t act as if liberal hegemony on college campuses is non-existant among the staff.

  27. “Maybe there is a bit of value to the fact that with more education people tend to become more liberal ”

    Or they can go to the “Old Macdonald Cornell” like Keith Olbermann did. OR they can get phony degrees off the internet like half the staff at Air America has done and run around denouncing people who go to colleges and get real degrees.

    Most “educated” liberals are products of parents sending them off to school and paying for everything. What makes this country work is not a coffee house full of misfits with tatoos reading poetry and calling themselves “intellectuals.” It’s people who go to school, pay for their own education, get a job and put in the economy in a way that allows us to not have to bail out lazy folks who fall for subprime mortgages.

    I guarantee, if you take that route, the one required for success, you’ll be a conservative faster than you know it.

  28. “Or they can go to the “Old Macdonald Cornell” like Keith Olbermann did. OR they can get phony degrees off the internet like half the staff at Air America has done and run around denouncing people who go to colleges and get real degrees.”

    No way, Steve, peddling lies? Nah, can’t be.

    See, Michael , Steve, like most cons, is threatened by educated people who don’t buy into his brainwashed way of thinking. He’s got no recourse except to attack smart folks who don’t vote by virtue of greed, calling on the things he can’t wrap his brain around, like tattoos or poetry. He also feigns populism, contradicting the fact that most rich people are Republicans, and yes, they pay for their kid’s schooling, along with their cars and their rent.

    He couldn’t possibly accept the fact that rich bankers, not “stupid” homeowners, are responsible for the economic crisis. If you give him enough time, or prompt him as I am doing now, he’ll ignore Ayn Rand’s heir apparent, Alan Greenspan, as well as economists for the Federal Reserve and the FDIC, and try to convince you that homeowners, and by proxy, democrats, are responsible for the mess that happened on their guy’s watch. It’s actually quite amusing, watching him twist and spin in desperate attempts to avoid accountability.

    The mere fact that you pointed out, Michael, that the more education that people have, the more likely they are to be liberal, is evidenced quite well by the belt of red states in the middle of the country that continue to vote against their own best interests. I wonder what the college graduation rate is of folks in those red states…

  29. “Then all of the top policy makers, executives, the majority of the past half-dozen or so presidents… are all flaming liberals? Even the conservative ones that were sooo “indoctrinated” even after their education?”

    No, some people really are smart enough to detect crap from the get-go. Then they spend their entire college-days arguing with liberals, their professors, classmates, etc.

    I went straight to work out of high school and held off on continuing my education until a few years later because I knew Congress (after the Gingrich revolution) would be offering tax incentives for college students – known today as the Hope and Lifetime credits. I did not go to an Ivy League school – but even there the professors were bashing Republicans. One professor even called GW Bush a “criminal” and it was fun debating him. I made his forehead sweat the first three weeks I was there. It was after that in which he knew that he couldn’t get away with that with me and he calmed it down.

    The problem with most vulnerable and not-particularly-bright college students nowadays is that, unlike me, they go right into college after high school feeling every bit as much as dependent on their parents as they did throughout high school – it’s just more fun to play while they aren’t watching.

    So college students are still in their ideological phases. They like protests and any other excuse they can come up with to avoid studying.

    If they were required to move out on their own and work full-time for two years before going back to school or were lucky enough to grow up in Republican families like Ann Coulter did, the liberal-conservative balance on campuses would be a lot more balanced.

    But because they aren’t required to work like a real American has to in order to succeed, they spend the rest of their lives wondering why Air America goes bankrupt, why Iranians still won’t be our friends after Obama begged them to, and why Rush Limbaugh and Fox News remain at the top.

  30. “He also feigns populism, contradicting the fact that most rich people are Republicans, and yes, they pay for their kid’s schooling, along with their cars and their rent. ”

    Not at all. Liberals have the billionaires like George Soros and they pretty much damned themselves by driving all of their Wall Street contributors away by taking away their bonuses. I guarantee, those guys were not voting Republican as Joy Behar said to Ann Coulter – Manhattan is “the hot bed of liberalism.”

    Either coast, the wealthy folks who live in places like San Francisco, NYC, or Hollywood – are wealthy folks who are more-than-happy to accept the “courageous” monikers assigned to them by tatooed folks like yourself because they have the money required to donate. These folks are so wealthy that socialism full out would not hurt them as it would 99% of the country who are small business owners or people working for small-business owners.

    I wrap my brain around my job. Look at this forum today, I am just now entering this because I was working. I am no better than you, I was born with not one more special skill than you or any other liberal. WE ARE EQUAL my liberal pioneer!

    I have accepted that in this free market, I have to work as many hours required for me to have enough in my savings account to do what I want for the rest of the year. My uncle – who owns the business – IS STILL THERE at 9:53PM on a Sunday night and will be there until midnight.

    My aunt left at 8pm to make it to Wendy’s to pick up 20 large chilis so we can freeze those to have lunches for the week as we have no time between the appointments we take to leave the offices during the week to pick up lunch.

    It is possible to be responsible, to not have to rely on the government to provide your welfare for you.

    Reading poetry is fine, but do it on vacation when you’ve earned it. It’s certainly not paying money into the US Treasury like I did today to contribute to Hussein’s trillion-dollar spending spree.

  31. By the way, tatooed Republican men are my weakness – the ones driving the gas-guzzling jeeps, the ones who still smoke, the ones with big hands, and the ones who tow your little fuel-efficient electric cars when the engine in the trunk fails you. All diesel all the time.

    I have no problem with tatoos if they’re attached to people who paid for them with their own working wages.

  32. “See, denial.”

    Then please, answer my stated fact that the violence hasn’t stopped in Northern Ireland.

    “That’s a joke. Nixon left Vietnam because the public demanded it, not because he wanted peace.”

    Talk about living in denial…you’ve just gotta have an excuse why he wasn’t interested in real peace, don’t you? Please, Robert, explain to me why a war would be stopped simply because the public demanded it. The public is demanding it with Iraq and Obama isn’t bowing just yet. You don’t stop a war simply because it’s unpopular. You stop a war because either a) there’s no way to win it, or b) you DO win it.

    “See, Michael , Steve, like most cons, is threatened by educated people who don’t buy into his brainwashed way of thinking. He’s got no recourse except to attack smart folks who don’t vote by virtue of greed, calling on the things he can’t wrap his brain around, like tattoos or poetry.”

    Talk about attacking people. I don’t suppose you’re referring to my nearly-sleeved arms?

    “…And by proxy, democrats, are responsible for the mess that happened on their guy’s watch.”

    The mess may have unfolded during the Bush years, but the setup started with Carter. Reagan tried to undo it, to no avail; Clinton helped the idiots in the Republican party deregulate the industry even further. Phil Gramm may have helped sponsor that legislation, but YOUR GUY signed it into law when he should have vetoed it. If it were up to me, Phil Gramm would be gone.

  33. I went to Columbia (on an academic scholarship) and I agree with Philip. If there were other conservatives, they were also scared to admit it. I had to stop telling people I was from Georgia if I wanted to avoid a lecture about how racist and backward the entire South is (yeah, like the Upper East Side and the Hamptons are so integrated). Fortunately I was a religion major whose AOS was Philosophy of Religion and American Christianity and I had fantastic professors. I am also the wife of a professor and I can assure you that conservatives are openly loathed and discriminated against in academia.

    The whole liberals = smart and good & conservatives = dumb and evil mentality is ridiculous. I have no desire to engage in a discussion with anyone who has this viewpoint. Which happens to be deeply flawed. For example, check out the list of economists who signed the letter against the stimulus – it’s approximately 200 long. Then check out the work and columns of Thomas Sowell (the Sage of Palo Alto and one of the greatest modern economists). There are plenty of examples of brilliant men and women who are conservative.

    I also have to say that everyone I’ve ever met who went to Brown was a huge liberal who had never met anyone who had ever challenged their views. In fact, I think that Brown is the most liberal of all the Ivies.

  34. Wow, we’ve got someone who goes to Brown. We’ve got some with a grad degree from Ohio University and someone who went to Columbia.

    I feel so inadequate LO. I attended my state univerity. Well…at least it wasn’t a Land Grant college (you had to be there to get that joke). It was very liberal. That enviroment taught/indoctrianted me in two ways:

    1. Liberals are crazy.
    2. The best way to become a better conservative is to live among the liberals.

  35. “(yeah, like the Upper East Side and the Hamptons are so integrated).”

    Kira

    You mean these places are not integrated? 🙂

    Who knew? LOL

  36. “I guarantee, those guys were not voting Republican “

    Yeah, because it was the democrats trying to deregulate the banking industry…

    “Reading poetry is fine, but do it on vacation when you’ve earned it. It’s certainly not paying money into the US Treasury like I did today to contribute to Hussein’s trillion-dollar spending spree.”

    There are so many things wrong with that statement, that I don’t know where to begin. First, if you don’t realize that there is a niche in the economic picture for the arts, like poetry, you’re blind. Someone’s buying the stuff, and it contributes to the economy like anything else. Secondly, I’d cool the rhetoric on spending, because you, and your entire party are completely devoid of credibility on this issue. Lecture all you want, but you didn’t say boo when ol Drunky McDumbass racked up five trillion in debt. You claim to be fiscal conservatives, but your party’s like an out of control teenaged girl with her daddy’s credit card when they get into office. I honestly don’t know you can make any such claims and still be taken seriously, especially considering that three Republican presidents (Reagan, Bush, and Bush Jr.) are responsible for 70% of this nation’s debt. It’s insane, and you need to stop.

  37. “Then please, answer my stated fact that the violence hasn’t stopped in Northern Ireland.”

    It did in fact die down for years, and picked up only as recently as 2006. You can’t honestly blame Clinton for that. What did you expect him to do, personally police the country after he left office?

    “Talk about living in denial…you’ve just gotta have an excuse why he wasn’t interested in real peace, don’t you?”

    Oh, pardon me for not realizing that Richard Nixon was a creature of morals. Considering that he had nothing but contempt for hippies and others who protested him because of said war, you think he would have at least given the impression that he was on their side…

    “Please, Robert, explain to me why a war would be stopped simply because the public demanded it”

    That’s easy, the pubic demanded it end because thousands of people were dying needlessly. Sound familiar?

    “You stop a war because either a) there’s no way to win it, or b) you DO win it.”

    Exactly, and in Nixon’s case it was choice a.

    “Talk about attacking people. I don’t suppose you’re referring to my nearly-sleeved arms?”

    I was actually referring to myself. I get the feeling that all conservatives see is a punk with tattoos up and down my arms and legs, a ring in my lip and a pink mohawk, and dismiss me as someone who couldn’t possibly know what he’s talking about. And as my friends would attest, I have yet to be bested by one…

    “The mess may have unfolded during the Bush years,…”

    Yes, and it was largely created there too. With the advent of the credit default swap in 2001, things started building on an incredibly faulty foundation. By the end of 2007, there were $45 trillion worth of these time bombs floating around. $45 trillion! The GDP of the entire planet is $65 trillion. And, to get a better sense of that ridiculously large number, one trillion is a thousand billions, and one billion is a thousand millions. So, needless to say, when a $45 trillion house of cards comes tumbling down, there aren’t many safe places to go. But, you know, the people like Steve who desperately cling to the notion that $3 billion in bad mortgages brought down the economy just don’t want to look past pointing their fingers in the wrong direction. Sure, it was a symptom of the problem, but there’s just no way that it was the problem…

    “…but the setup started with Carter. Reagan tried to undo it, to no avail;”

    You’re half right. Carter got the ball rolling on deregulation with the airline industry, but it went completely on steroids under Reagan. He stopped enforcing the Sherman Anti-trust Act, and you saw radio stations, newspapers, and television stations being gobbled up and consolidated in the hand of the few. Clinton’s Telecommunications Act of 1996 put the final nail in the coffin, and today, 95% of radio, print, and TV is owned by five or six companies. Monopoly was the name of the game under Reagan, and the rich flourished.

    “Clinton helped the idiots in the Republican party deregulate the industry even further”

    You mean there are non idiots in the republican party? Ha!

    I’d also like to point out that William Seidman, former head of the FDIC and the RTC, invented tranched, credit rated securitizations, also known as CDOs (collateralized debt obligation). Seidman, for years, begged for regulation of these things, but Alan Greenspan would have none of it. Here’s what he had to say regarding CDOs and the economic collapse:

    “It was proposed that there, regulation or at least disclosure be required and the industry fought it and the Federal Reserve under Alan Greenspan vehemently opposed. And they made the argument which you hear all the time, and I can remember Alan saying, “look, these are sophisticated contracts between knowledgeable buyers and knowledgeable sellers; no regulators can do as well as they’ll do, so what do you need a regulator for? The market will regulate these.” And he won the day. And so among the list of our friends along with me and others, Alan was clearly, I’d say, the key person responsible for the fact that we didn’t even know how many of those contracts there were, And they were up in the trillions. So, when AIG got in trouble, it turned out that they had one division with 400 people in it, they had 80,000 employees, they had 400 people in one division, they wrote all these contracts. They didn’t report any of them. So they were, you’d say, gambling by writing these contracts. and when things started to go bad and they had to pay on these contracts, the whole monster, the largest insurance company in the world went under.”

    Interesting (and scary) stuff…

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