How Kind of You, Mr. President!

Members of Congress and Obama have now moved toward denouncing the emphasis of opposition of this health care reform disaster and affirm their position by reminding us how much they are willing to contribute.

Obama today at a rally said he was happy that ‘people like him’ could pay a little more to make sure that 46 million Americans could have health care. 

It all sounds great now, doesn’t it?

What he isn’t able to avoid though is the fact that there aren’t many ‘people like him’ in the country.  He works for the United States Government!

What’s the difference between working for the United States Government and working for a private insurance company?  How about the fact that making a profit or loss affects CEOs at insurance companies (not to mention millions of middle-class employees) but DOES NOT affect Obama’s salary in the case of the Government?  We’ve seen all Presidents in the past rack up massive debt (Democrat and Republican) and they will still receive generous health care benefits and retirement packages – as will Obama.

Here’s my question: as the Government continues to put its hands further into the auto industry, mortgage industry, and now health care; and more and more CEOs and people making over $250K per year are phased out, how does Obama expect us to believe that the middle class will never have to pay more when less people are going to be there to pay that “little bit more” which he is willing to contribute?

My opinion is that he knows that’s impossible. After this plan is sold to the middle class under the guise of protecting them and we are all forced to a single-payer plan, he will get what he’s wanted all along.  The country will be in so deep that it will never matter once everyone realizes.

This is such an important fight.  I pray that the many articles popping up now denouncing average Americans and their concerns will not dissuade those same Americans from fighting harder in this next month.

Call your Congressman, write them, etc.  Let them know you are saying “No!”

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21 thoughts on “How Kind of You, Mr. President!

  1. “Here’s my question: as the Government continues to put its hands further into the auto industry, mortgage industry, and now health care; and more and more CEOs and people making over $250K per year are phased out, how does Obama expect us to believe that the middle class will never have to pay more when less people are going to be there to pay that “little bit more” which he is willing to contribute?”

    This would be a great question if it were rooted in reality. First of all, using your own words and logic, if these people who are supposedly on a chopping block to be “phased out”, can’t cut it in this free market, isn’t that just the market’s way of “weeding out the trash”? Secondly, you seem to be either omitting or ignorant of two things. The CBO very recently declared the health care reform deficit neutral:

    http://edlabor.house.gov/newsroom/2009/07/cbo-scores-confirms-deficit-ne.shtml

    And, let’s not forget the fact that the private insurance industry is currently taking billions of taxpayer dollars in the form of subsidies, thanks to George Bush and the Medicare nightmare passed in ’03, including Part D. You know, the one that allowed insurance companies to supplement senior’s Medicare by labeling themselves “Medicare Advantage”? I wonder how many hundreds of thousands of seniors were swindled into giving their money to private insurance companies, thinking it was affiliated with Medicare. So, since Obama will put a stop to that, that should save a nice little bundle of cash, to the tune of billions per year. So, in essence, I’m already paying for health care, yet I don’t have an insurance policy that says I do. Good deal, don’t you think? Yeah, we should definitely vote the cons back into power, and soon.

    “After this plan is sold to the middle class under the guise of protecting them and we are all forced to a single-payer plan, he will get what he’s wanted all along”

    As much as I’d like that to be true, it simply isn’t. And what exactly is being “sold” here, Steve? Nothing that you loons say is in here is actually in there. The GOP talking points consist of using phrases like “government takeover”, and “the demise of health care” in this country, and it’s all a bunch of bullshit. Anyone out there screaming about euthanizing grandma is out of their minds. Likewise, those who choose to perpetuate the myth that this plan will somehow force doctors to perform abortions even if they disagree with it are also either lying or crazy.

    And I can pretty much guarantee you that all the wackos showing up to these town halls screaming “read the bill”, have never read “the bill” themselves. All we have to go on is HR 3200, the one that passed the House. There is no bill at the moment, because there are five different versions floating around that need to be reconciled in conference. And HR 3200 has no provisions to kill the elderly, or to force abortions on unwilling doctors (if doctors disagree with abortion, they already have the option to not assign one to themselves. Yes, doctors choose the procedures they wish to perform), or any other nonsense that the right is coordinating. All this bill does is exactly what the president said it will do – provide people with a public option. It doesn’t force anyone to drop their current providers; all it does is promote competition. If you like your insurance, fine keep it. Keep paying 40% in administrative fees, as opposed to the government’s 3%.

    There’s a clause in HR 3200 that specifically addresses it, and it says if you have insurance, it’s grandfathered in, it won’t change AT ALL. This bill also doesn’t install government supplied doctors to any hospitals or clinics. It won’t result in sub standard care; it will only make things better. What people fail to realize is that if people have health care from childhood to adulthood, lots of diseases can be prevented because more people will know what their risk factors are, they will know what to steer clear of, and they will possess the knowledge to take care of themselves properly, so that they don’t just show up in the ER one day needing an expensive surgery for a condition that could have either been prevented or managed without serious medical attention.

    And as far as doctor’s pay goes, they would literally make more money. Because the way things work now, they either have to wait months if not years to collect from insurance companies, or they just don’t get paid by people without insurance that just visited the ER with a $9,000 bill they can’t afford. If people are utilizing the public option, guess what? The doctors actually get paid, and in a timely manner. The right wing politicians in this country are ginning up fear and disseminating disinformation on a daily basis. Here’s an interesting fact check of all the garbage you’ve been hearing (and promoting):

    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2009/jul/30/e-mail-analysis-health-bill-needs-check-/

  2. “This would be a great question if it were rooted in reality. First of all, using your own words and logic, if these people who are supposedly on a chopping block to be “phased out”, can’t cut it in this free market, isn’t that just the market’s way of “weeding out the trash”?”

    No. The folks have their jobs now and they are not competing with the US Government.

    Folks like yourself have been saying it for years. In terms of everything, you’d like to see a broader shift in the distribution. So setting our arguments aside on what is and what isn’t wealth re-distribution, if those folks who earn $250K more a year AND DO NOT work for the U.S. Government begin to phase out, begin making less than $250K per year, well hell Robert – that there means that the cow they were relying on to pay for all of this just went belly up.

    The fact is many of those high-income taxpayers rely on the industry to make their income. When they are competing with an entity like the United States government, they will never survive! Where is Obama going to get the tax revenue when those folks aren’t contributing anymore.

    “And, let’s not forget the fact that the private insurance industry is currently taking billions of taxpayer dollars in the form of subsidies, thanks to George Bush and the Medicare nightmare passed in ’03, including Part D.”

    Medicare was almost broke far before Part D, and it is now. Social Security is broke. Focus on what has always been Robert, and quit playing politics for five seconds.

    It doesn’t mean ANYTHING to any President if these programs fail because they do not have to rely on them. Okay fine, you see an issue with mixing Government entities with private entities. Great! But I am starting to gather that you (and don’t attack me like Obama attacks others when this is implied) don’t care about Government mingling in the free market as long as they are the ones with more control.

    There is no way IN HELL that Barack Obama is going to insure 46 million people, make costs go down for everyone, and convince us that the tax revenue from those earning over $250K is going to cover it all. Never in a million years will that ever be the case. If this passes, we all will be forced to a single payer plan, the type of Americans in the higher income brackets will be more sparse than ever before, and then one of two things will happen:

    a.) Ration Care and Supplies
    b.) Raise Taxes on the Middle Class

    It is INEVITABLE.

    “There’s a clause in HR 3200 that specifically addresses it, and it says if you have insurance, it’s grandfathered in, it won’t change AT ALL.”

    Okay, but if the provider is competing with an entity like the US Government that can continue to make a deficit forever and its controllers like Obama keep to get earning their great salaries every year while the rest of us suffer, how long are those people going to keep that plan after that company eventually goes out of business?

    “And as far as doctor’s pay goes, they would literally make more money.”

    Right, we don’t even know what’s going to happen to insurance companies at this point. We don’t even know how the government is going to pay for all of this.

    Doctors are going to make more, costs are going to keep going down, and 46 million Americans will be insured….LOL, as Ann Coulter said:

    “You can eat as much chocolate cake as you want, but you’ll never gain weight!”

    Someone left me this message this morning and sums it up quite well:

    “Healthcare is no more complicated than buying any other product if we’re allowed it. We need deregulation of the health insurance market so all 1300 providers are free to operate in all markets. Breaking the back of the AMA will allow the building of more medical schools, and thus more doctors, lowering prices for everyone. Those few who are uninsurable can then be placed on Medicare. Simple problem=simple solution”

    Whatever the case may be Robert, we do not need radicalism. HR 3200 screams radicalism from start to finish. It’s a means to an end and whether or not you like it, public opinion just might prevail this time regardless of the shift in Congress.

  3. “Folks like yourself have been saying it for years. In terms of everything, you’d like to see a broader shift in the distribution. So setting our arguments aside on what is and what isn’t wealth re-distribution, if those folks who earn $250K more a year AND DO NOT work for the U.S. Government begin to phase out, begin making less than $250K per year, well hell Robert – that there means that the cow they were relying on to pay for all of this just went belly up.”

    Again, that scenario is something you just pulled out of your ass. Nowhere has it been outlined to raise taxes on the middle class. Raising taxes in general is not really being discussed at the moment, seeing as how the plan entails saving money elsewhere to pay for this.

    “The fact is many of those high-income taxpayers rely on the industry to make their income. When they are competing with an entity like the United States government, they will never survive!”

    So, you’re only in favor of competition if the government isn’t involved? You should probably share that portion of crazy with whoever runs FedEx and UPS. I don’t think they got the memo…

    “Medicare was almost broke far before Part D, and it is now. Social Security is broke. Focus on what has always been Robert, and quit playing politics for five seconds.”

    I’m sorry, so subsidizing private health insurance while nearly fifty million of us don’t have any is playing politics? You need to stop brushing an incredibly valid and huge point aside because you don’t like to face the reality of it. The heart of this argument for you was, up until a minute ago, the concern of how to pay for it. Now that I’ve brought up the very real scenario of taxpayer funded handouts to the poor insurance companies that you’re so concerned will go under, and how stopping that ludicrous practice will save billions and help pay for the health care reform, I’m playing politics. Got it.

    “But I am starting to gather that you (and don’t attack me like Obama attacks others when this is implied) don’t care about Government mingling in the free market as long as they are the ones with more control.”

    I don’t believe in a free market to begin with, you know that. I’ve always maintained that the government creates the conditions in which this so called free market can even exist. So how can more government intervention be a bad thing to me, when the consumer is the beneficiary instead of some prick in a suit?

    “Okay, but if the provider is competing with an entity like the US Government that can continue to make a deficit forever and its controllers like Obama keep to get earning their great salaries every year while the rest of us suffer, how long are those people going to keep that plan after that company eventually goes out of business?”

    First, as has already been established, this plan is deficit neutral. Second, if the public option is a better one, and private companies go belly up, isn’t that the very definition of competition? If they cannot manage to survive as a company by providing people with worthwhile health care, it’s pretty evident that they had no business being a business in the first place. It’s almost as if you’re outright acknowledging that insurance companies need not provide heath care, but merely make a profit at the expense of others. A company that does business does not deserve to exist in my opinion.

    “We don’t even know how the government is going to pay for all of this.”

    Why don’t you read what the CBO said about this?

    “Whatever the case may be Robert, we do not need radicalism. HR 3200 screams radicalism from start to finish. It’s a means to an end and whether or not you like it, public opinion just might prevail this time regardless of the shift in Congress.”

    First of all, we already are radical to begin with. Being the only industrialized nation on earth that treats its citizens this way is not something to boast about. And I don’t know what the hell poll you’re talking about, but a majority of people want the government to help stabilize skyrocketing premiums, be it through a government option (HR 3200), or by forcing insurance companies to go back to their original form and become not for profit (HR 676, which was rejected).

    “Are you telling us that the CBO is not “rooted in reality?”

    Why would I do that after posting a report from the CBO declaring HR 3200 deficit neutral? The CBO’s findings may say that, and they may be correct, but I was merely taking my information from someone who actually works in the medical field. It made sense to me then, and it makes sense to me now.

  4. “A company that does business does not deserve to exist in my opinion.”

    I actually meant to write this:

    A company that does business that way does not deserve to exist in my opinion

  5. “Again, that scenario is something you just pulled out of your ass. Nowhere has it been outlined to raise taxes on the middle class.”

    Dammit Robert, it’ s a simple equation. If a bill was formed tomorrow to send you off on a race in a car with bad alignment on a road on the side of a cliff with no guard rails and the bill specifically states: “the drivers will stay within the white lines!”, does that mean that you’re not going to drive off of the cliff and ultimately kill yourself?

    Here is the proposal again, you say Doctors are going to be paid more, Obama says costs are going to come down, then we’re going to give this to 46 million Americans – nowhere in the bill is it specifically outlined that we’ll have to ration health care or that middle class will be stuck footing the bill, but it’s pretty damned obvious.

    Does your politifact analysis explain how Obama can say in one breath: “if you like your current plan, you can keep it” but in another breath say: “the current system is broken” while in another breath say: “I support a single-payer system.”

    That’s the link I’d like to see.

    “So, you’re only in favor of competition if the government isn’t involved? You should probably share that portion of crazy with whoever runs FedEx and UPS. I don’t think they got the memo…”

    That was stupid when Obama made that comparison and it’s beneath your intelligence (admittedly) to do the same thing. The post office is suffering because of e-mail – simple messages like letters and postcards are sent for free now. Check with AOL, YAHOO, or Google who either make money from subscriptions or advertisers that put those annoying banners around our inbox to see how they’re doing. If you could send large packages through the computer, Fed Ex and UPS would be in the same boat. This was a positive shift, free market like Google, YAHOO, etc. are doing wonderfully because they offered an alternative to a government solution which gave us something for free. I haven’t written a check or put a stamp on something in years. Even other institutions like IRS, SEC, the US Department of Labor, and Social Security Admininistration encourage electronic submissions.

    But to act as if Fed Ex and USPS are exactly identical is a crock.

    “I’m sorry, so subsidizing private health insurance while nearly fifty million of us don’t have any is playing politics?”

    I am saying that the failure of attempted Government and Free Market mixes does not constitute giving us a losing formula. In a discussion where I say “get government out!”, you bring in the Bush administration yet again. What about him? He’s once ran it, now Obama does – neither one should be advocating policies that intrude government into our private lives whether or not we be the providers or the recipients of the goods and services in any industry you choose to examine.

  6. “Here is the proposal again, you say Doctors are going to be paid more, Obama says costs are going to come down, then we’re going to give this to 46 million Americans – nowhere in the bill is it specifically outlined that we’ll have to ration health care or that middle class will be stuck footing the bill, but it’s pretty damned obvious.”

    That sounds to me like you’re drawing your own conclusions based on your paranoia. If doctors are actually getting paid, as opposed to not getting paid by those who use the ER as their primary care, they’ll make more. Half of all bankruptcies are due to medical bills. Do you really think those bills are paying themselves? If doctors are actually getting paid, in a timely manner, by the government, as opposed to fighting tooth and nail with insurance companies, they’ll make more. It’s a win win situation for physicians. How you find reasons to bitch about it are beyond me.

    “Does your politifact analysis explain how Obama can say in one breath: “if you like your current plan, you can keep it” but in another breath say: “the current system is broken” while in another breath say: “I support a single-payer system.””

    I believe it does, but it seems you need it reiterated, so here goes. If you enjoy the fact that forty percent of your health care dollars are going to administrative fees, stay with what you’ve got. If you appreciate paying top dollar for services that will very likely not be there when you need them, by all means, keep with it. If you’re a hard headed neocon who wishes to single handedly prop up crooked business practices, go for it. If you don’t like it, go for the public option. If you can’t afford steadily rising premiums, consider the public option. If you want assurance that your insurance will do what it promises, take the public option. That’s how it works. And FYI, Obama, to my chagrin, has not uttered a peep about single payer since before it was him and Hillary in the primary, where SHE was the one promoting it, NOT him. He was for it years ago, and changed his tune when he was a serious contender.

    “If you could send large packages through the computer, Fed Ex and UPS would be in the same boat.”

    Now you’re getting it! And since you can’t, your options are the government (who happens to run the post office fabulously), or one of their (what’s the word?) competitors!

    “But to act as if Fed Ex and USPS are exactly identical is a crock.”

    They offer similar services at competitive prices. That is no crock, my friend, but truth. To act as if they’re radically different from other forms of mail delivery is absurd.

    “I am saying that the failure of attempted Government and Free Market mixes does not constitute giving us a losing formula”

    It’s never even been given a chance, how can you say it’s a losing formula? The only proven failure that I can see is the laissez faire capitalism run under the guise of a free market. That has failed immensely, leading right to the slump the economy is in now.

    “In a discussion where I say “get government out!”, you bring in the Bush administration yet again. What about him? “

    Fair enough. Take Bush’s name out of the conversation. The government still gives billions of taxpayer’s dollars to private insurance companies that brand themselves Medicare when they are far from it. That still remains true. If it makes you cringe to know that a republican president put that into place, fine, we won’t mention it in an attempt to assuage your uneasiness.

    “neither one should be advocating policies that intrude government into our private lives whether or not we be the providers or the recipients of the goods and services in any industry you choose to examine.”

    So, to sum up your feelings, if a business is in existence to do the opposite of what they claim, that’s fine, and we should all be forced to accept it because there is no alternative? Last time I checked, government was here for one reason, and one reason only: to provide for the welfare of the general public. If they have to step in to ensure that big business is not doing the opposite, so be it. I’m glad the government is doing its job. It’s merely a perk that in doing so, it’s managing to piss you off in the process…

  7. “I’m glad the government is doing its job.”

    Me too! Especially when they listen to their constituents and start laying the groundwork to back away from this insane bill.

    In case you didn’t hear, this morning on “Meet the Press” Sebelius suggested that the White House may be ready to accept non-profit insurance solutions INSTEAD OF A GOVERNMENT-RUN PUBLIC OPTION.

    Gee, I wonder why she did that all of a sudden!

    The perk of watching people get pissed off when the government does its job happens to be resting on my side of the fence today, my friend.

    It’s morning in America!

  8. “In case you didn’t hear, this morning on “Meet the Press” Sebelius suggested that the White House may be ready to accept non-profit insurance solutions INSTEAD OF A GOVERNMENT-RUN PUBLIC OPTION.”

    That’s fine, that was essentially the guts of HR 676, the superior option in my opinion. I’m surprised you’re not pissed, seeing as how those making over $250,000 will still be “phased out” according to you.

    Also, it’s apparent you didn’t get the memo from Mel, but Yahoo! is no longer a trusted source. Unless, of course, it says something you want to hear…

  9. Actually, Mel is correct. You have to see what’s behind what is posted on YAHOO! – For example, mine is backed by CNN’s episode of Meet The Press. But often times, when you click on “news”, articles written on the Huffington Post appear. We all know that isn’t news or reliable.

    I was concerned about over $250K folks being phased out with the public health option because those folks would not be there to pay the tax required to run it.

    Now that the public health option is coming off of the table, that is no longer a concern. Whatever the solution is, government cannot effectively run it, and it’s apparent that the President is finally getting the message.

  10. “You have to see what’s behind what is posted on YAHOO! – For example, mine is backed by CNN’s episode of Meet The Press.”

    Yeah, and mine was backed by the Atlanta Journal Constitution. It reprinted a story that appeared in the paper – VERBATIM, and it wasn’t good enough because it presented facts that didn’t allow her to claim ignorance anymore…

    Also, I’m watching Press the Meat right now, and Sebeilus isn’t even on the program, you’re referring to State of the Union on CNN.

    “Now that the public health option is coming off of the table, that is no longer a concern.”

    I sincerely doubt that that option is coming off the table, seeing as how Sebelius isn’t even in a position to write any portion of any bill. But even if it did, the insurance companies being converted to not for profit would still be a huge victory over neocons like you who only care about the dollar.

  11. Robert, in the subtext of the article (where you click on it), this morning, it read “Meet The Press.”

    And as you continue to read the articles coming after it, you will see just how more serious the White House is getting.

    Your final paragraph implying that I care about money more than people is typical. But there’s nothing you can say today that will make me frown.

  12. Finally, your fixation on it being a huge victory “over neocons” like me is the true telling factor that this was a “huge loss” to socialist-loving libbies.

    I thought it was uninsured Americans you far-left wackos were pretending to care about?

  13. “Finally, your fixation on it being a huge victory “over neocons” like me is the true telling factor that this was a “huge loss” to socialist-loving libbies.”

    How so? If insurance companies are forced to go back to being not for profit, like they once were long ago, more people will be insured because CEOs will go back to acting like owners instead of like shareholders. Once you compensate someone with stock options, they stop caring about the well being of the company as a whole and start inflating stock prices so they can get the money and get out. Not for profit just ensures that the focus goes back to where it should be; the patient, not the profit.

    “I thought it was uninsured Americans you far-left wackos were pretending to care about?”

    The two aren’t mutually exclusive, you knuckle head. It is possible to have your mind on two different tracks that lead to the same place. You being the type of person you are, I don’t expect you to understand.

  14. OK, you knuckle head.

    The specifics can be debated as we move forward and the nation will speak its mind on it. But removing the public option is a massive step in the right direction.

    🙂 Have a nice Sunday now.

    I am sure there will be plenty to discuss in the week ahead of us.

  15. “I thought it was uninsured Americans …”

    46 million people uninsured. 300 million plus in America. That amounts to 15.3%. That’s nothing.

    Pre-existing conditons. I have a pre-existing condition, I am a good driver. My car insurnace rate reflects that. If I were a bad driver then my premiumns would be higher assuming I can find an company to insure me.

    The above goes for health insurance too. Lower risk policy holders pay less. Higher risk ones pay more.

    Why we are making a huge fuss about any of this amazes me.

  16. John, we’re making a huge fuss about it because a small portion of the country–that 15.6% you just pointed out–has their panties in a wad. Even most of the Democrats I know are against this bill.

    My dad is in the hospital right now. At 0130 this morning, he woke up with chest pain radiating down both arms and nausea. He’s going to be okay, but if he was on, say, Canadian or British healthcare, I don’t think he’d be doing so well. Sure, he’ll have a portion that he’ll have to pay. His insurance covers it, though.

    He’s also been smoking since he was 12. My otherwise brilliant father can’t quit smoking. He’s known for a long time that smoking is bad for him, and he pays a hell of a lot more for his insurance than I pay for mine–because I don’t smoke. I don’t see anything wrong with that. I love my dad, but I’m hoping that he’ll see the light this time.

  17. Mel,

    Some of us need a tap on the shoulder. Some of us nned a two by four across the face. Maybe your dad got the proverbial two by four and he’ll wake up.

    P.S. I smoke. I know I shouldn’t.

    IMHO these people with their panties in a wad need only look at the U.S. Postal service. This year it is projected to run $7 billion dollars in the red. If the government can’t deliver our mail and break even then how in the world will it manage health care? Delivering mail is easy.

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