Who Needs the Truth?

Ever since election day 2000, we’ve heard nothing but “Bush stole the election!” Nobody has been able to prove this. They keep whining about Florida, and how the race was rigged, but the real truth has been stuffed down and ignored.

At 1949 Eastern Standard Time on November 7, 2000, nearly all of the major news networks–beginning with NBC–announced that the polls had closed in Florida and Gore had won the state’s 25 electoral votes. Trouble was, the Florida Panhandle was on Central time. Their polls were actually due to remain open for another hour. Thousands of voters who had not yet been able to vote didn’t go. Some were standing in line when the announcement was heard and left. With the demand for a recount, even with the military votes tossed out Bush still carried the state. He won three recounts. In the aftermath, the Supreme Court of the United States had to intervene to stop Florida voting laws from being upended. Even a Democratic strategist admitted that Bush lost no less than 10,000 votes in Panhandle precincts where the announcement caused people not to vote. The media, quick to prejudge, cost Bush votes–but he still managed to eek out a win. The AP refused to concede that Bush had won throughout the whole mess.

Later, at 0216 EST, FOX News analyst John Ellis made his network the first to announce that Bush had won the presidency. Somehow, the same MSM networks that had erroneously called the Florida election for Gore an hour too early managed to make the Bush win all Ellis’s fault. According to them, his announcement made it a psychological thing, some sort of behemoth that couldn’t be stopped (at two in the godforsaken a.m.? Please!). Why? Because Ellis was Bush’s cousin. Then, with no proof at all, the MSM accused Ellis of giving Bush confidential inside information–something that was completely illegal.

They’ve never dropped it. Not one of them has ever been able to prove the accusations against Ellis, but they refuse to let it go. A Lexis/Nexis search turns up literally hundreds of news articles about John Ellis’s role in the 2000 election…and next to none about the rest of the networks choosing to call Florida for Gore an hour before their polls closed, with less than 2% of the precinct numbers in.

Most recently, the MSM sought to sully the name of another conservative, this one far more prominent: Rush Limbaugh.

Rush has always been an object of hatred for the MSM. The liberal-controlled press, normally compassionate to liberals with drug problems, bragged about “the permanent smirk” they wore after Rush admitted to being addicted to Oxycontin in 2003. Just a couple of weeks ago Rush put in a bid to buy the St. Louis Rams (NFL). The media jumped on the announcement with both feet.

Dave Zirin, a writer for a radical rag known as The Nation (but put forth by MSNBC as a sportswriter), was the first to malign Rush over his bid. He claimed to have heard Rush say “slavery had its merits.” The same quote was used by NFL quarterback James Farrior and was posted on NBC’s website after being regurgitated by Dave Schuster. CNN joined the charge when anchorman Rick Sanchez spit out a more complete version of the quote: “…slavery built the South. I’m not saying we should bring it back. I’m just saying it had its merits. For one thing, the streets were safer after dark.”

The next day, the only mention of the quote on CNN was made by Sanchez, and he only said that Rush had denied ever saying anything like it. Nobody had offered the date, time, or an audio sample to prove its authenticity, but it was out there, and a good number of people believed it without question. Sanchez defended himself by claiming–also baselessly–that other racist quotes had been attributed to Rush and a lot of people found it offensive.

MSNBC didn’t even post Rush’s denial of the quote. They didn’t give him a second thought. David Schuster and Tamron Hall only repeated the quote and swore up and down that it was legitimate. Hall’s guest on that show, on Tuesday, October 13, was Karen Hunter–and she took the attack on Rush a step further by claiming Rush had praised James Earl Ray (Martin Luther King, Jr.’s assassin) and said he deserved the medal of honor. Rachel Maddow parroted both quotes on her show. Trouble was, the only source from which the James Earl Ray quote was taken was a radically left-wing book by Jack Huberman called 101 People Who Are Really Screwing America (ripped from Bernie Goldberg’s book of the same title).

The “slavery” quote, which made it’s MSM debut with St. Louis Post-Dispatch op-ed writer Bryan Burwell, also originated with Jack Huberman. Burwell followed that bogus quote up with the following: “I know how those words play out in idiot America. They’re embraced as gospel.” The Post-Dispatch refused to back up their writer, but he wouldn’t back down. He went on to describe his article as “throwing a deck chair off the Titanic,” and made the first claim that Rush had a litany of racist remarks, thus making him unfit to own an NFL team.

When nobody–not Huberman, Burwell, Schuster, Sanchez or Hall–could come up with any proof that Rush had made any of those statements, the media spent less than 60 seconds on the idea that Rush may have been falsely accused. After that 60 seconds was up, they dropped it.

FOX has been the only network that has aired Rush’s demand that the accusations be retracted.

I don’t listen to Rush much. I really just don’t have the time. When he’s on, I’m at work, and I have more important things to do than listen to talk radio. What I do hear from him, however, I tend to agree with. And I find it stupefying that the MSM can all but try to throw a presidential election, blame it on a FOX analyst, and try to ruin a man with accusations of racism and hatemongering when all of it–ALL OF IT–is a crock of lies. I guess the quotes were just too good for anyone to do any source-checks.

Who needs the truth when we’ve got the media?

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64 thoughts on “Who Needs the Truth?

  1. “And yet the loser lost the popular vote lol”

    Isn’t it cute how liberals spend more time on Bush, still?

    Mel, I am glad you wrote this though and provoked this response out of Tom because it proves something to be true that Rush said today on his show.

    In a speech to military, Obama made all these promises with regard to Afghanistan, how he won’t “rush into” any big decisions, how will will fully support them, yada yada…..

    Liberals like Tom and the President himself are still stuck in campaign mode. All they concentrated on was getting this inexperienced dunce elected! Okay, the media handed them the election, and this guy is running the country! Let’s see him act like a Commander-in-Chief for once!

    Campaigning against Bush Republicanism is over now. The American people want substance and they want results. And if Obama’s own base of nuts (like Tom) aren’t going to demand even the crazy things be carried out, is it any wonder why he’s losing approval so fast?

  2. Yikes! Now you’re calling me names lol

    Sorry buddy, didn’t know I got you THAT angry 😉

    And right after our lovely facebook chat, awww what a shame

  3. “Yikes! Now you’re calling me names lol”

    Okay, your President has not honored one of his promises to you.

    I look at you and your refusal to call him out and it and call you a “nut” for doing so and you’re going to take issue with me?

    Why Tom? I have no power here….I didn’t sell you out, he did.

  4. What Obama and his cronies don’t realize is that most conservatives, by the end of Bush’s 8 years, were starving for a true conservative. That’s the only reason McCain lost–he’s not a true conservative, and a hell of a lot of conservatives couldn’t plug their noses to vote for the man. Gingrich is letting me down in a huge way now, too. It seems that the Republicans are just desperate to keep control and aren’t listening to the base, which desperately wants true conservatives in office, NOT just someone with that “R” next to their name.

    Gore only got so much of the popular vote, Tom. And the main theme here, by the way, is linking the media’s incredibly low-down dirty behavior during the election to the same low-down dirty behavior they’re displaying with Rush. Every person who has challenged me or any other conservative blogger on Rush’s supposedly racist comments can only link OneNews, which is a radical “news” blog for black readers, and the only links they carry are to other blogs.

    Nobody has yet posted a single date, time or audio clip proving Rush said any of the racist remarks he’s accused of.

  5. I thought I’d jump in. One of my friends sent me this. The Obama is more Bush like than people will admit:

    If George W. Bush had been the first President to need a teleprompter installed to be able to get through a press conference, would you have
    laughed and said this is more proof of how inept he is on his own and is really controlled by smarter men behind the scenes?

    If George W. Bush had spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to take Laura Bush to a play in NYC, would you have approved?

    If George W. Bush had reduced your retirement plan’s holdings of GM stock by 90% and given the unions a majority stake in GM, would you have approved?

    If George W. Bush had made a joke at the expense of the Special Olympics, would you have approved?

    If George W. Bush had given Gordon Brown a set of inexpensive and incorrectly formatted DVDs, when Gordon Brown had given him a thoughtful and historically significant gift, would you have approved?

    If George W. Bush had given the Queen of England an iPod containing videos of his speeches, would you have thought this embarrassingly narcissistic and tacky?

    If George W. Bush had bowed to the King of Saudi Arabia , would you have approved?

    If George W. Bush had visited Austria and made reference to the non-existent “Austrian language,” would you have brushed it off as a minor slip?

    If George W. Bush had filled his cabinet and circle of advisers with people who cannot seem to keep current in their income taxes, would you
    have approved?

    If George W. Bush had been so Spanish illiterate as to refer to “Cinco de Cuatro” in front of the Mexican ambassador when it was the 5th of May
    (Cinco de Mayo), and continued to flub it when he tried again, would you have winced in embarrassment?

    If George W. Bush had mis-spelled the word “advice” would you have hammered
    him for it for years like Dan Quayle and potatoe as proof of what a dunce he is?

    If George W. Bush had burned 9,000 gallons of jet fuel to go plant a single tree on Earth Day, would you have concluded he’s a hypocrite?

    If George W. Bush’s administration had okayed Air Force One flying low over millions of people followed by a jet fighter in downtown Manhattan
    causing widespread panic, would you have wondered whether they actually get what happened on 9-11?

    If George W. Bush had failed to send relief aid to flood victims throughout the Midwest with more people killed or made homeless than in
    New Orleans, would you want it made into a major ongoing political issue with claims of racism and incompetence?

    If George W. Bush had created the position of 32 Czars who report directly to him, bypassing the House and Senate on much of what is happening in America, would you have approved.

    If George W. Bush had ordered the firing of the CEO of a major corporation, even though he had no constitutional authority to do so, would you have approved?

    If George W. Bush had proposed to double the national debt, which had taken more than two centuries to accumulate, in one year, would you have approved?

    If George W. Bush had then proposed to double the debt again within 10 years, would you have approved?

    So, tell me again, what is it about Obama that makes him so brilliant and impressive? Can’t think of anything?

    Don’t worry.

    He’s done all this in 5 months — so you’ll have three years and seven months to come up with an answer.

  6. “If George W. Bush had spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to take Laura Bush to a play in NYC, would you have approved?”

    I’m just absolutely flabbergasted how the right in the media is so concerned with that one night whereas their man Bush was the most vacationed President ever. The Texas coach potato wouldn’t even let a warning about 9/11 get him out of his precious ranch. You conservatives and your “responsibility”.

    Btw Steve, remember how you used to say that polls were just 12-year-olds answering phones and that the entire polling industry was bogus? What ever happened to that? Oh wait! Those were when I cited polls that you DIDN’T want to believe lol. Honestly Steve, your self-contradictions are so incredibly ridiculous I swear it’s giving me a workout just to find out how to say somthing simply enough for you to understand. I kick ur butt about your “conservative country” theory with a poll showing 57% support the public option, and all you do is put your tail between your legs and change the subject to a personal attack.

    I just honestly feel good when you actually do have good arguments because it makes me feel there is some sanity among the far-right.

  7. “The Texas coach potato wouldn’t even let a warning about 9/11 get him out of his precious ranch.”

    Tom, there comes a time when stupidity hits its ultimate – and now you’re just boring to listen to.

    “Bin Laden Determined to Attack” is not sufficient evidence. But, for purposes of argument with another boring liberal, let’s stipulate.

    Let’s pretend the report went on to say:

    1.) It was going to happen in September 11.
    2.) There were going to be 19 Arab men.
    3.) They were going to fly airplanes into buildings with hijacked commerical aircraft.

    Just what is it you would have supported Bush doing?

    Could he have thrown Arabs out of the country? Could he have held them in preventative detention like FDR did with the Japanese during WW2? Could he have directed airport security to take an extra look at Muslim men boarding airplanes?

    Norman Minetta, the only Clinton-holdover in the Bush White House was Scretary of Transportation – he worked to put massive fines onto airlines for searching more than two arabs per flight.

    Seeings as it took 19 arab men, I’d say it was a bad rule, wouldn’t you?

    The fact is if Bush had drafted the Patriot Act or invaded Afghanistan or Iraq BEFORE 9/11 and stopped the attacks, liberals would have been able to attack him for being a war criminal far more than they already have.

    Liberals did not and still DO NOT support any measure seriously taken to stop terrorism. Silly for you to pretend now, wouldn’t you say?

    “I just honestly feel good when you actually do have good arguments because it makes me feel there is some sanity among the far-right.”

    Tom, you spent the day obsessing about Sarah Palin. I didn’t even disagree with a poll you put out as evidence….

    The realization of her popularity I believe came more clear to you today and so now you’re hopped up and crazed about it.

    I still wonder though, why you spend more time in here screaming when Obama has only made our war worse. More Americans are dying per month now than they ever did under GWB.

    It’s baffling that you try so hard. What I’d find impressive is if one liberal could expect their President to live up to his promises.

    No offense, at this point – your ranting is really beginning to sound like background noise.

  8. Steve

    Bush was on vacation…while he was warned of a terrorist attack….think about how many right-wing heads would explode if a liberal did that…

    think…

    And on top of that Bush completely tore apart Clinton’s plan that he left over for him on how to deal with terrorism. Yup, your boy sure kept us safe allright…except for that one teensy tiny little time…

  9. I find it hilarious that liberals defend Obama – EVERYTHING on the Bush administration and he is now almost in office for ten whole months.

    Bush was in office for eight whole months – and liberals refuse to blame the previous administration for the largest attack ever on our soil – or the escalation of events which led up to it.

    Sooner or later – you’re going to have to examine the common sense of it. All the facts I listed above on how liberals treated terrorists before 9/11 and how they want them treated after 9/11….

    The default answer to 9/11 and for all the problems beginning in January through now of “Bush did it” is becoming less effective.

    Tom, this isn’t a presidential campaign anymore – and you’re pretending like it is. Obama is the President, as I have implored you to do before – focus on him!

  10. To use your own logic, Hannity was bashing Obama for the economy after only a few months in office, saying too much time had passed to blame the previous administration. So by his, and I’m assuming your, logic, Bush must be REALLY REALLY REALLY responsible for 911 given he was in office A LOT longer than Obama when you guys started blaming him.

    No Steve, you WANT to blame Clinton and believe 911 was his fault but the reality is that both administrations were to blame and it could be argued that Bush was guiltier because he was the one in charge at the time, similarly to how the Bay of Pigs turned out to be Kennedy’s fault even though the previous administration started it.

    Clinton did everything he could to cooperate with the incoming administration to warm them about terrorism and Bush scrapped it under the table. Newt Gingrich even accused Clinton of being “obsessed” with Bin Laden. But now it turns out that your guy presided over the worst attack in history and so naturally you blame the previous Democratic administration. Such a simply ploy.

    And on top of that, just to show how committed he was to national security, he wouldn’t leave his Texas Ranch when he was warned about an attack, nor did he put down a children’s book in an elementary school DURING that attack. Even Sean Hannity attacked him for that Steve!

    Could you IMAGINE the outcry from the right about weak-kneed liberal neglegence on national security had it been CLINTON in either of those two situations???

  11. “Clinton did everything he could to cooperate with the incoming administration to warm them about terrorism and Bush scrapped it under the table.”

    If I were to compare that belief to the absolute lack of action on Clinton’s part to actually stop terrorist acts, it would ring hollow, and it does. US snipers had the man in their crosshairs–they had him at the ends of their long-range rifles–and Clinton’s SecDef couldn’t even give the order to fire. How many times did the terrorists hit Americans both here and abroad during his eight years in office?

    Let’s see…there was Mogadishu, where tribal warlord Mohammed Farah Adid led an urban assault that killed 18 US troops, and Clinton tucked tail and ran, screaming apologies the whole way. Our embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were bombed by Muslim terrorists, and in response the idiot torched a pharmaceutical plant. The World Trade Center was bombed, and the only reason we caught the ringleader was because he was dumb enough to go back to the rental company for his deposit.

    AND, to add insult to injury, the USS Cole was bombed off the coast of Yemen. What did we do?

    NOTHING.

    Clinton did not do a damn thing. NOT ONE DAMN THING. Oh, but he cared enough to warn Bush. That absolves him, right?

    But as long as you’re using that argument, I’d like to point something out here. Liberals the world over scream and cry about how we had no business invading Iraq because we didn’t have proof of WMD’s. Your beloved Bill Clinton thought Saddam had ’em, too–and he said so in his 1998 State of the Union address. He even went so far as to sign HR 4655 into law that year, which called for a regime change in Iraq but denied military force be used. But he later ordered air strikes on anti-aircraft facilities–weapons Saddam was not allowed to have–in Iraq’s no-fly zones.

    It’s aaaaall Bush’s fault, though. Bush did plenty of things that pissed us off. I don’t think he was a true conservative. But he did a hell of a lot more for our protection than Clinton did. And if you notice, Taliban attacks have only recently picked up; that’s because they know exactly how political it is now that Obama is our C in C. THAT is the reason behind the uptick in deaths. They believe, because of Clinton’s refusal to react swiftly and severely to such attacks, that if they kill just a few more troops Obama will get scared and react exactly the same way.

    That’s a liberal for ya.

  12. Mel:

    I believe the World Trade Center was attacked because the terrorists thought all we would do is drop a bomb here or there and move on.

    I don’t know how good our spy network and Homeland security is. But no one has attacked our home soil since 9-11. I think up until the Obama was elected the terrorists were too fearful of the reprisals. Now they can test the waters and see what the Obama is made of.

  13. They don’t need to test the waters. They already know what he’s made of (or, more appropriately, what he isn’t made of). They know that he has a school of jellyfish in place of his spine. That’s why they’re attacking with greater audacity and frequency–they learned from the events in Mogadishu that if they just kill a few, the liberal American president will get scared, backpedal, cry his apologies and run away as fast as he can. They know Obama doesn’t have the stomach to get in there and clean them out.

    Sarah Palin, though–a military mom–would not think twice about bombing them back to their amoeba form.

  14. RAR RAR RARRR!!! lol

    Mel you are a perfect example of the embarrassing right-wing comic book fantasizing that makes up your party. Your constant talk about liberals being wussies and you guys being strong, GI Joes is just a cry for attention. And here’s all the attention you’re getting from me…

    Boo

    Hoo

    You’re not cowboys and this isn’t the Wild West. Detach yourselves from your Buzz Lightyear figures of masculinity and start behaving like adults. God knows about much of a man Bush was when we played golf and ate hot dogs while being warned of terrorism, and how angrier than normal you neocons would be had that been Obama. Or how about the fact that Bush and Reagan were the two laziest presidents ever as measured by their vacation time?

  15. “Mel you are a perfect example of the embarrassing right-wing comic book fantasizing that makes up your party.”

    At least our comic books sell in the free market whereas yours has to be evenly distributed among the villagers who are unable to sustain free thought.

    “God knows about much of a man Bush was when we played golf and ate hot dogs while being warned of terrorism”

    But since you claim to not believe in “God”, I suppose that would be a moot point.

    Oh wait, were you referring to Obama?

    “Or how about the fact that Bush and Reagan were the two laziest presidents ever as measured by their vacation time?”

    Only a liberal without a job would have time to do that kind of research. Was it Obama while he was on his extended vacation in Martha’s Vineyard?

    Since even SNL has pointed out that he’s done nothing since January, one might wonder precisely what he did to earn his vacation, let alone the Nobel Peace Prize.

    Liberalism: inspired by the Three Stooges.

  16. Yikes! You need to calm down Steve.

    Though if I had no facts to counter someone’s argument I suppose I too would just throw personal attacks 😉

  17. “Though if I had no facts to counter someone’s argument I suppose I too would just throw personal attacks ”

    Okay, how about the fact that Mel and I probably worked more hours than you did last week. In working those hours, we accomplished things, earned money, etc.

    So, why don’t you leave the judgment of work and vacation to those who can identify with it a little better. 😉

  18. By the way; as a libertarian, I am certain you must be thrilled that third-party candidate (not a Republican or a Democrat) has surged to the lead in New York 23. You know him, don’t you? The one Sarah Palin endorsed…yeah, him.

  19. More personal attacks?

    Lol Calm yourself Steve. That rage can’t be good for you.
    Especially since you enough enough to be concerned about in 2010 😉

  20. “Mel you are a perfect example of the embarrassing right-wing comic book fantasizing that makes up your party.”

    Funny…I was just thinking the same thing about you, albeit about the liberal side of the spectrum. I just had the class not to say it until now; I actually had facts and I thought those were relevant.

    “Your constant talk about liberals being wussies and you guys being strong, GI Joes is just a cry for attention.”

    I suppose your next crack is going to be to compare my respect for the Second Amendment to fanatacism and my ownership of firearms to penis envy.

    “And here’s all the attention you’re getting from me…”

    Tom, you keep coming back. Each time you fail to offer any verifiable evidence of your claims, then when you’re proven wrong with sound logic you start with the personal attacks because you’re a blubbering liberal and have nothing better to say, but dammit you’re gonna make sure you get the last word.

    “More personal attacks?”

    Yeah, because you’re never guilty of that, right?

  21. Oh I’m no liberal. I believe in the second amendment but not out of insecurity with my masculinity. I can honestly say that most of these gun-toters are just trying to fill an emptiness in their unsatisfying lives.

    I’d like you to cite a single example of a personal attack I’ve made.

    I’M the one who keeps citing facts. I debunked your precious “conservative country” fantasy and when I mentioned the pro-choice victories on ballot initiatives across the country, my friend Steve tried to make forget his and Coulter’s bragging about Americans being against abortion and how that’s why liberals “won’t let them vote on it”. Well you know what? They DID vote on it and the resounding conclusion could not have possibly been more painful for you guys.

    In fact, every time I make a point you either change the subject or, as I just mentioned above, try to make me forget your previous talking points just so you don’t have to admit you’ve been proven wrong, like when Steve was bragging about Americans being against abortion.

    Also, Steve didn’t respond to my point about how he used to not believe in polls and say they were just 12-year-olds answering the phones, and yet now that he found some polls that make his mouth water he decides he’s going to think the opposite. But ONLY for the polls that he likes.

    I’m willing to have these little online battles but would you at least make it worthwhile by being mature and just admitting when you’re wrong instead of cahnging the subject or insulting me?

    No wonder you guys can’t win elections

  22. “RAR RAR RARRR!!! lol

    “Mel you are a perfect example of the embarrassing right-wing comic book fantasizing that makes up your party. Your constant talk about liberals being wussies and you guys being strong, GI Joes is just a cry for attention. And here’s all the attention you’re getting from me…

    “Boo

    “Hoo

    “You’re not cowboys and this isn’t the Wild West. Detach yourselves from your Buzz Lightyear figures of masculinity and start behaving like adults.”

    Nope. That wasn’t a personal attack at all. Especially when you called me…what was it?…oh, yeah, “a perfect example of the embarrassing right-wing comic book fantasizing that makes up your party.”

    You haven’t cited facts, Tom. You’re citing opinions.

  23. “I’m willing to have these little online battles but would you at least make it worthwhile by being mature and just admitting when you’re wrong instead of cahnging the subject or insulting me?”

    Nobody’s twistin’ yer arm to keep ya here, pardner. If you don’t like being called out then make like a cowpie an’ hit the dusty trail.

  24. “Also, Steve didn’t respond to my point about how he used to not believe in polls and say they were just 12-year-olds answering the phones”

    I did over and over again….Tom, you are the one who uses a litmus test for polling. It requires that they just say what you want them to say but the problem is the source conducting the poll, how the questions were phrased, etc. etc.

    With that being said, your last poll you cited about Sarah Palin received no criticism from me. I didn’t say the poll was biased, I didn’t say it was because of 12-year olds…I said that it’s findings make a lot of sense with regard to her enormous popularity and liking and how folks feel that she identifies with them.

    The only requirement I have for polls is that they be executed fairly – which is why I have turned to GALLUP, the polling king! They have no stake Tom in either way the political spectrum goes. They offer thoughtful analysis and discussion on their findings as well.

    “No wonder you guys can’t win elections”

    We won tons of elections – for twelve years in a row. Mel and I are conservatives, Tom – as GALLUP proves so are the majority of this country. We had McCain and Obama and when “Republicans” start acting like liberals, they lose! Obama was attractive, he smiled nice, he gave nice speeches. Sure, Sarah Palin looks even more attractive, smiles even nicer, and her speeches drew far more crowds during the election than Obama’s did – BUT SHE WASN’T the front-runner – McCain was.

    Liberals and moveon.org are now freaking out over little NY23 race. They say – as I posted already – that if Doug Hoffman wins on Tuesday, this will be a massive add of power to Sarah Palin and the “far right.”

    See, they’d rather say “far right” and you’d rather say “neocon” – because it makes diludinoids believe that they are in the norm with their wacky ideas. But, it is “conservative” and it has always been what made this country tick.

    Obama won because of moderates who were fed up with Liberal-Republicans like Goldwater, Dole, McCain – and sadly BUSH in his last year in office. ACORNS crackheads didn’t hurt either.

    But Tuesday is going to be a new beginning….and I am dying to read the Huffington Post on Wednesday.

  25. “Nobody’s twistin’ yer arm to keep ya here, pardner. If you don’t like being called out then make like a cowpie an’ hit the dusty trail.”

    Haha, in case you didn’t notice, Tom – that’s a damned good example of thick-skinned conservative gal pokin’ fun back.

    Remember, it’s your President who cannot take the heat of a little Fox News.

  26. Ahem – I’d say it’s about time to look in the mirror again and say:

    “They never win elections! Everybody agrees with me! And I have a Teen Beat poll to prove it!”

    On a serious level, I am proud that you are studying hard.

  27. 40% is a majority? LOL Obviously I’m studying better than you did when you were in school 😉

    GALLUP GALLUP GALLUP

    lol How many times do I have to tell you that your precious “Gallup” the “poll king” doesn’t have ANYTHING to do with the credibility of the poll because it’s the QUESTION in ITSELF that makes it a joke! lol Poor Steve it takes a serious level of denial to not understand something I’ve repeated about ten times now. God himself could have conducted it and it wouldn’t make it credible because the question is ambiguous and nothing but a matter of labels.

    No Steve, you keep saying that my polls are misleading and that the source is bogus because you have no argument and you’re just trying to BS your way out of embarrassment. The truth is the reverse. MY polls are ALWAYS accurate because they ask SPECIFIC question on ISSUES.

    Take for example the poll you didn’t believe: Looking back, do you think the overthrowing of Saddam Hussein was the right thing to do?

    That you can possibly believe that THAT poll had an agenda and was trying to get a certain answer while believing YOUR poll about LABEL PREFERENCES is just beyond parody!

    And then when I further broke down the looniness of that poll by explaining to you other polls(both opinion polls and ELECTION RESULTS) that show, among other things, that Americans OVERWHELMINGLY are pro-choice , favor the public option, support barriers to free trade, increases in the minimum wage, progressive taxation, and think that the government should be in charge of health care, you just ran with your tail between your legs desperately changing the subject.

    You have everything in reverse Steve but you just don’t know it.

    Don’t you get it? You’re argumentatively incapable! No offense buddy but you drool over these agenda-driven polls that are worded to get a certain answer(and at that they only managed 40%!) and boast about their legitimacy because of the magic touch of GALLUP, and yet no matter how many election results or issue-based unambiguous polls I cite, THOSE are the ones you’ll accuse of being worded to get a certain answer!

    It’s amazing how far you’ll twist your sense of logic!

    Don’t be a sore loser and just follow your own logic of following the “real polls” (remember that bit of rhetoric you pulled on me?) 😉

    You lost because of the unpopularity of the war, then because of Sarah Palin(as Obama’s numbers went up before the crisis and right after her television interviews), because of the economy, because of history and lastly, Obama’s likeability.

    Politics has an ebb and flow Steve. But hey, you think the two parties secretly made a pact to massively migrate to each others’ regions, thus explaining how Democrats, southerners in the Civil War, are now in the north and the GOP in the south! Because god knows that makes so much more sense than a simple switch in party affiliation that everyone who’s ever taken a middle school history class already knows about! lol.

    About that issue of the southern strategy, all you could ever do was mock me, whereas you’re the one who couldn’t counter my facts! lol

  28. “40% is a majority? LOL Obviously I’m studying better than you did when you were in school”

    Yes, considering the other 60% equal 35% moderates and 20% liberals.

    ““poll king” doesn’t have ANYTHING to do with the credibility of the poll because it’s the QUESTION in ITSELF that makes it a joke!”

    Gallup, unlike CBS, NBC, etc….does not ask misleading questions. They are clear and concise. Which is why I have only used them as of late.

    “No Steve, you keep saying that my polls are misleading and that the source is bogus”

    No Tom, you keep SAYING I am taking that position when I am not.

    I AM NOT ARGUING ABOUT YOUR POLLS!

    But it is astonishing that Gallup releases a few with regard to Obama tanking and the majority of American being conservative to get you to dance:

    Dance from: well, just because it says they are conservative doesn’t mean they don’t support abortion…

    Dance to: Two years ago, that one poll said all Americans like abortion….

    Dance to: Steve hates my polls

    Dance to: Bush goes on vacation too much

    Dance to: Sarah Palin is hated even though the article from my poll says she is not.

    Tom it’s embarrassing to watch you spin around like this, and THAT is the only embarrassment I feel. Honestly, your obsession with hating Sarah Palin and watching you react to one poll is far worse than my labrador spin around trying to catch her tail – but even after a few good minutes, she gives up.

    “You have everything in reverse Steve but you just don’t know it.”

    That’s only your perception because your constant spinning has you dizzy! Sit still for a moment.

    “Don’t you get it? You’re argumentatively incapable!”

    That’s really elementary for you to say seeings as I have gotten you to rail and scream about it now for how many days? You’re the one here incapable and frustrated that you cannot change the facts that this country does NOT like liberals or their agendas. Any person reading your rants here….and who picks up on how predictable you are to responding to even the silliest things can see it’s all stemming from a realization that is pissing you off like you haven’t been pissed off in quite some time.

    The fact is, with your failing President, and your failing Congress – you don’t have any political ammo left. You cannot prove; with them, why progressive policies work….they cannot even agree amongst themselves what those policies should be….even if it means writing legislation 1,990 pages long!

    All you know is – it’s better than “conservatism.”

    Being in denial isn’t going to help your case.

    “About that issue of the southern strategy, all you could ever do was mock me, whereas you’re the one who couldn’t counter my facts! lol”

    I love people from the south. I love conservatives, Tom. I do not care if they are conservative Democrats or if they are conservative Republicans. Your twisting of history again only proves ONE THING – that liberalism is not and has never been popular.

    If you feel better, you can switch a few adjectives and acronyms around all you want. But buddy, the majority rests with me ;-).

    It’s tricks for you on this Halloween.

  29. The only one talking about Sarah Palin is you buddy. My article that I sent was just a response to your blog post drooling over her.

    “Gallup, unlike CBS, NBC, etc….does not ask misleading questions. They are clear and concise. Which is why I have only used them as of late.”

    Uh… okaayyyy… lol Not sure exactly what the point of saying that was given that they did indeed ask a misleading question and you ranting about the glory of the all might Gallup doesn’t do squat to change it… Man you are REALLY bad at this lol would you like me to help you? 😉

    Your party has diefied the word “conservative” and demonized “liberal” so the poll can only go one way sorry to say…

    You haven’t addressed my point regarding the other CLEAR polls that show how ridiculous yours is. They may call themselves “conservatives” or “mr potato heads” but their beliefs are independent from what they choose to label themselves. Just like how a 51% “pro-life” majority can overwhelmingly support Roe v Wade. Can you believe it? Not only do “pro-lifers” support abortion, but they don’t even want the states to be able to decide on it! lmao And ya know what? Whenever the states DO decide, they OVERWHELMINGLY pick choice!

    “Your twisting of history again only proves ONE THING”

    Steve…it really doesn’t reflect well on you when all you do is say I’m twisting history without being able to explain why….

    Let me explain it to you once again…the modern GOP is made up of racist Democrats from the south who were convinced by Richard Nixon to convert to the GOP because they were the new party of racists. That’s why the GOP is from the south, because it’s where the racists Democrats were. Can you point to me any one of those racist Democrats from the NORTH? lol. Since then, the GOP has been using the politics of subtle racism in order to sustain themselves, such as Ronald Reagan’s made-up story about a black woman who was living lucratively off of welfare checks. It wasn’t a coincidence that she was black Steve.

    Of course, I’ve beaten you at this so all you’re going to say is how I’M the one who’s twisting facts. It’s almost as sad as when you changed the subject of how your obsession with the death penalty contradicts your “pro-life” blabbering. “HOW DARE YOU COMPARE INNOCENT BABIES TO CONVICTED MURDERS!” lol. Never once did you address the matter of the fact that supporting DEATH is the opposite of being “pro-life” as a simple matter of fact REGARDLESS of whether your right in your positions. If you were mature you would just hold your beliefs without hysterically blabbering and lecturing about life, especially when your precious Sarah hunts for fun and you worship her for it out of insecurity. Yes, animals are different than people but I just don’t get why conservatives can’t seem to understand that enjoying death is not “pro-life”. You seem so committed to making English the official language whereas you don’t even seem to understand basic words like “life” and “death”.

    You are not “pro-life” and that’s a FACT. Doesn’t mean you’re wrong in your BELIEFS, just your RHETORIC that you browbeat everyone with. If your party was mature enough to simply admit that and not pretend that since you were just “right” that you can twist the English language, then I might be able to cast a vote for you.

    Your right-wing obsession with believing this country agrees with you is what I can’ t stand because it’s the height of immaturity. If you were secure you could take some disappointment because god knows more is coming your way.

    The GOP is obsessed with Regan, someone who, unlike Obama, was LITERALLY a celebrity(an actor), and who, despite the GOP mocking Obama by calling him the messiah, is someone whom Republicans LITERALLY refer to as Jesus! Take Sean Hannity’s recurring segment “What would Ronald Reagan do?” Could you imagine how much more miserable he’d be had a democrat said that of Obama?

    You’re the one obsessed and angry Steve. I’ve never used a single personal attack but you have. I’m arguing with logic that I find myself having to repeat numerous times for you to understand. I’m the one having to deal with a zombie mentality that just refuses to accept when he’s in the minority.

    You lost.

    Boo

    Hoo

    I hope you can one day find the intellectual courage and maturity to admit this country isn’t on your side and isn’t necessarily against you either. We live in a democracy, not an oligarchy of talk-radio-listening right-wing Nascar fans who secretly control all elections behind the scenes and just “allow” liberals to get in office to teach the GOP a lesson.

    Best wishes Steve. And try not to get too angry this time 😉

  30. Yep, as I said before, you’re easy to predict….

    Since we’ve been over the rest of it fifty times and you’re still avoiding the fact that Americans like Palin and more of them are conservative than are liberal, I will have fun with just one statement you made:

    “Can you point to me any one of those racist Democrats from the NORTH?”

    Yes, they are part of the left wing of the Democratic party today. They picked Howard Dean over Donna Brazile who was actually a smart Democrat.

    They hate black Republicans. (BTW, Condi was from the south, too? Was she one of those former-racist Democrats?)

    Charlie Rangel (D-NY) forgets to report a couple years of rental income on a house and HE is the one liberals and the NY Times constantly beat up when Chris Dodd is the massive tax cheat (not to mention the rest of the white tax cheats in the President’s cabinet).

    When Rice was nominated as Secretary of State, liberal cartoonists published racist cartoons against her.

    More Republicans appointed blacks to positions of higher power than liberals have…..

    Yes – I suppose now you will say that the racist majority of the left-wing used to be Republicans pre-Nixon?

  31. By the way – can you name me one southern Republican who is a racist?

    Strom Thurmond. Btw, I find it hilarious that Sean Hannity busted a nut about Robert Byrd’s racist past when HE was pres pro-tem which consisted of nothing more than a few marches in the KKK but when Thurmond held that same senate position he was completely silent on his LIFETIME of legislative racist activism which includes his all-time record for fillibusters against the Civil Rights Act. But then again, as Margaret Thatcher said of Reagan the Great, “poor dear, he’s got nothing between the ears”

    Th Southern Strategy is a fact Steve. What, you think think both parties agreed to massively migrate to each others’ regions? Is THAT the REAL real reason why southerns are now REpublicans? lol You’re as goofy as the 911 kooks!

    The worst part for you is that you have no facts. I’m sick of explaining this I would a ridilin-poppin’ 12-year-old. This is stuff that everybody who knows history knows about Steve. Not only are you denying basic historical fact but you’re doing so in the fact of reason! You still haven’t explained what you believe to be the “true” reason for the party switch.

    Well, I’m listening Steve. Go ahead. Prove those “loony liberal” history textbooks wrong once more….

    And you still never addressed my argument that these “conservatives” are the same people who, according to polls that ask about ISSUES, would be too “loony liberal” to be in your party. You can hang on to the comfort of knowing many Americans think conservative sounds nice but I’m sorry to say that your refusal to even address my point just proves that you’re like a petulant child in denial who believes what he wants to believe and blinds himself to the world.

    Come on Steve, come to reason and stop with this immaturity of never being able to accept when you’re not a majority, let alone a minority. Is “conservative” pro-Roe and pro-public option? I don’t think so.

    To summarize,

    Tell me why the history that all but the most secluded right-wing mind’s have been taught is wrong and the real reason why the parties switched. I’m warning you though, if you just go on another self-exciting rant it’s not going to make you look very serious….

    Oh, and there was no racist cartoon against Condi. A bird is not racist. And Karl Rove deliberately used racism to secure SC for Bush against McCain. Remember the “Black kid?”

    You’re trying to deny basic historical fact with nothing but mockery. I know you can do better Steve.

    Now, HIT ME WITH YOUR BEST DAMN ARGUMENT EVER!!!

    Make your momma proud!

  32. “Robert Byrd’s racist past when HE was pres pro-tem which consisted of nothing more than a few marches in the KKK”

    Nothing more than a few marches? You see, how a race-mongering-for-political-convenience “progressive” can minimize a provable racist action – demoralizing them altogether as human beings. Yet when one Democrat makes a bad choice, learns from it, and then becomes a Republican – it’s just something the darlings of the left cannot get over.

    Odd, considering that Thurmond – AFTER becoming a Republican did the following:

    1.) Strom Thurmond DID support that Barry Goldwater AFTER switching to the Republican party. (FACT, Tom) You know Barry Goldwater; don’t you? The really socially conservative candidate? Was that the one too conservative that even you said nice things about him before? The one who lost in a landslide? Since you and Strom are both on record as saying nice things about the laughable Goldwater, can we assume you are a racist southerner, too?

    2.) [From Wikipedia] “Thurmond supported extending the Voting Rights Act, making the birthday of Martin Luther King, Jr. a federal holiday[2] and he was the first southern senator to appoint a black aide. (Another FACT, Tom)

    Yes, but marching in the KKK parades is much more “progressive” for the blacks than that. Poor Tom, denies factual history that implies a severe change of heart (even though that change of heart happened for Thurmond AFTER becoming a Republican – perhaps the racist liberals of today can do the same and convert as well to heal their own racial biases).

    “And you still never addressed my argument that these “conservatives” are the same people who, according to polls that ask about ISSUES, would be too “loony liberal” to be in your party.”

    “Conservative” has not changed. The reason someone is “liberal” Tom, in case you haven’t remembered is because they are the alleged “progressives” while the “conservatives” want to hold onto the past and that pesky document called the Constitution.

    Your word salad may bring you comfort – it may even make you more regular – but it does not create a mandate for liberal-progressive policies among the majority of this nation.

    If you don’t believe, let’s predict how the elections will go on Tuesday in New Jersey (the Republican-conservative is in the lead over Corzine), in New York 23 – the conservative candidate supported by Sarah Palin is now in the lead and the LIBERAL REPUBLICAN Scozzofava (who was in the lead before Palin’s endorsement of Doug Hoffman) resigned her campaign last night admitting defeat to the more conservative candidate. http://wcbstv.com/local/hoffman.scozzafava.ataki.2.1284573.html (Another FACT, Tom)

    Let’s also see how Obama stomping in Virginia and New Jersey will do for the “progressive” Governor candidates there.

    There will be a pretty good hint to you Tom on where the country is headed. 🙂 I know, I know….

    “But my poll from three years ago says that abortion recognition should be a federal holiday!”

    “Oh, and there was no racist cartoon against Condi.”

    You are so poorly informed, Tom. I know I understand – this vivid recognition of conservative America has yours meds on overload….

    http://michellemalkin.com/2008/07/16/clueless-washington-journalist-of-the-day-john-harwood/ (Another FACT, Tom)

    Beware, even liberal Danziger removed them from his own website once he realized how Americans even knew how racist the left was.

    Please don’t lie anymore, Tom. I cite facts all the time – as I did in this post – and if you cannot debate like a big boy because you’re having such a sissy fit over GALLUP’s polling results showing that more Americans are conservative than are liberal, then don’t debate at all.

    A new word salad moving this argument all over the map is not going to erase the facts and will not erase the conservative power in this country.

    Why don’t you at least pattern yourself after your President and blame it all on Fox News and Rush Limbaugh – because frankly, you become more embarrassing everytime you thrash your way to another evasive reponse.

  33. http://www.pollster.com/polls/nj/09-nj-gov-ge-cvc.php?xml=http://www.pollster.com/flashcharts/content/xml/09NJGovGECvC.xml&choices=Corzine,Christie,Daggett&phone=&ivr=&internet=&mail=&smoothing=&from_date=&to_date=&min_pct=&max_pct=&grid=&points=1&lines=1&colors=Christie-BF0014,Corzine-2247AF,Daggett-A69A37,Other-1B8F3E,Not%20Voting-1B8F3E

    Lol Boy did you just did yourself in a hole! It’s gonna be fun watching you spin this one 😉

    I can’t do anything for you Steve. All you do is use volume over substance. You keep screaming things that I’ve already explained to you don’t make sense. GALLUP GALLUP GALLUP! I don’t care about your precious boyfriend Gallup and you don’t seem to understand that the source isn’t the issue here, it’s the poll. All this time I’ve been secretly giggling at your passionate outbursts of “GALLUP” just because it’s so funny and you don’t even realize when you’ve been beaten. Take a break Steve. You of course, still haven’t addressed my point about CLEAR polls contradicting it. You see, it could be by Gallup or by God himself, but if a poll is a joke then it won’t matter. Your “conservative” poll says nothing about true ideology, just labels and I keep proving to you with CLEAR polls that you have nothing to celebrate and since you have nothing to debunk that you just willfully blind yourself and repeat GALLUP GALLUP GALLUP. You two should totally get a room! lol

    You’re having a private little hissy fit and trying to make yourself seem in control with your condescending undertones. You accuse me of throwing a “word salad” because you’ve been beaten.

    A cartoon of a bird is not racist. However, making up a myth about a black welfare queen, saying you support “States’ rights” in a town where two white civil rights activists were lynched, and mobilizing the racist vote for Bush with a “black kid” rumor as well as accusing Obama of being from Kenya, now THAT’S racism.

    The southern strategy is a fact Steve. Former RNC chair Ken Mehlmen even apologized for it. You can throw a “sissy fit” all you want and dance around it but one thing you’re not going to do is give an actual argument with facts because, despite your weaponry of condescention, that’s the one thing you just don’t have…

    Btw, nice to see you’ve changed your mind on the accuracy of Wikipedia! Lol god your memory of our past conversations is REALLY not that great….

  34. http://www.pollingreport.com/health.htm

    Stop lying about the public option, too.

    Read ALL the questions, Tom.

    The only one that stirs in favor of Obama or liberal Healthcare is the following:

    “And thinking about one aspect of the debate on health care legislation — In any health care proposal, how important do you feel it is to give people a choice of both a public plan administered by the federal government and a private plan for their health insurance: extremely important, quite important, not that important, or not at all important?”

    Still that only gave 48%….but the important aspect of that question is: “give people a choice” in which conservatives are offering by lifting the government’s already intrusive restrictions on the providers we can choose. If you asked a question about a public option without the “give people a choice” in it, you’d get a much different answer. 🙂

  35. here you go, Tom – a more recent poll showing Christie in the lead:

    http://www.philly.com/inquirer/local/nj/20091015_Quinnipiac_poll_shows_Corzine__Christie_in_a_tie.html

    “Btw, nice to see you’ve changed your mind on the accuracy of Wikipedia! Lol god your memory of our past conversations is REALLY not that great”

    Actually I remembered those from history class. Some things are accurate.

    “I can’t do anything for you Steve. All you do is use volume over substance.”

    I have you at least 4 credible facts (and put them in quotations). Now, you really are just responding like frustrated baby. Even if I hammered them into your head, you’d still stamp your feet…..but unlike you, I have friends I will be spending my Sunday with. I implore you to go outside and get some fresh air because you just blatantly called every fact I cited “volume” when indeed they all delivered the “substance” you allege is missing. And as I said, just wait until the elections on Tuesday.

    ” You accuse me of throwing a “word salad” because you’ve been beaten.”

    Now, you’ve graduated to “defiant teenager” from “crying baby.” I should congratulate you. Still doesn’t give us any substance, Tom.

    “The southern strategy is a fact Steve. Former RNC chair Ken Mehlmen even apologized for it.”

    That’s not substance Tom. That’s a generalization – and I notice you never back any of this stuff up. As if Ken Mehlmen, if he were here today, would back up your interpretation after given all the facts I provided.

    You have gone beyond scraping the bottom of the pudding cup. I feel so sorry for you, but I really will waste no more of my time today watching you behave like an evasive child.

  36. Tom, unless you can cite proper facts on this blog AS I JUST CITED TO YOU – such as your “poll” being a collaboration of all polls taken in the year 2009, and all of the facts on Strom Thurmond post-his-conversion to the Republican Party, your posts WILL be moved to the “trash” section.

    Another fact you can dismiss (and if you do, it will be moved to “trash” again) is the fact that because Christie has a 1-point CURRENT lead and even 2-point leads in other polls, Obama (in lieu of doing his job as “President”) is in New Jersey right now stomping all over the place for Corzine.

    Even he has the intellectual honesty to admit when he is presented with facts. Even he is intellectually honest enough to admit that the “progressive” left is worried because of NY23, because of NJ, and because of Virginia.

    But unless you can at least be as intellectually honest as Obama when you “debate”, don’t waste your time because I will remove the comments right away.

    No hard feelings, I just want substance out of you instead of tantrums….you’ve gone on overload all week and could benefit so much more by asking yourself “why am I so affected by this, personally?”

  37. The last post of yours I moved to “trash” did not contain facts, only allegations.

    The fact is Obama and the hard left understand the GALLUP polls and are out trying to dissuade Americans from that reality. Like I said, they at least have the intellectual honesty that you are lacking here.

  38. P.S. – as you promised to do – DO NOT respond from now on unless you have quotes from me, quotes or sources from the outside backing your specific assertions (perspectives).

    I took your poll on Sarah Palin – did not argue its results, but because of a direct quote provided by the researchers was able to prove to you her popularity. The day you sent me that poll, I think you were thinking I was going to respond in anger or insults – which I didn’t.

    The poll you sent today on the NJ race, I did not argue it’s integrity. I simply pointed out that it is not a current poll, it is a collaboration of various dates throughout 2009. I also pointed out the fact that Obama is frightened and in NJ right now trying to build up support for Corzine.

    When you blatantly deny things by telling me I am the one not citing facts, it’s like speaking to a child. And it really is a silly waste of time. So, from this point forward you must argue with the same dignity and respect that I give you….

    I have no problem with invective – as I have proven to you for years, but if your invective has no backing, it’s nothing but slander – and I will not put up with it.

  39. “The day you sent me that poll, I think you were thinking I was going to respond in anger or insults – which I didn’t.”

    “but unlike you, I have friends ”

    I can go on and on and on but the quotes from you you’re asking me to cite regarding your stance on polls are from years ago Steve and I don’t cherish them enough to go through my youtube inbox looking for them nor did I tape record our phone conversations to keep a record.

    Just got back from the gym Now I gotta walk seven miles to the theater to see Saw VI again. Great movie.

  40. I did not imply that you didn’t have friends, you deliberately posted that to mislead as you always do…I implied that you had quite a bit of time on your hands.

    Past discussions on polls which are two years old now and your resurrection of them were nothing but an attempt to deflect from the factual realities.

    I am not angered by the Sarah Palin poll, I am grateful because it puts things into perspective. That’s a good thing.

    I really am not interested in discussing “polls” we argued about though during the Bush administration.

    Liberals control the House, Senate, and Executive Branch of Government….why on Earth can you not hit me with something current?

    And then, Strom Thurmond! C’mon.

  41. “I implied that you had quite a bit of time on your hands. ”

    Exactly. Personal attacks. Btw, you seem to have more free time than me…

    Nothing I cited was in any way outdated. Tell me something you want me to cite.

    Strom Thurmond was relevant to our dicussion

  42. “Exactly. Personal attacks. Btw, you seem to have more free time than me…”

    No, I am excellent multi-tasker. Today I debated you, raked up every leaf in my yard (which are still burning in the pit out front), planted 100 tulip bulbs, had dinner, and just caught up with a long distance buddy on the phone.

    Tom, the entire week I have been trying to be moderate with you – and in your apparent frustration over the current polls and the way the nation seems to be swinging taking into consideration the three elections on Tuesday, you’ve just be reacting in a really immature way.

    What was outdated were these alleged poll discussions we had – and you kept citing them in an effort to ditch my moderate response to your current polls you were listing. It’s as if you wanted me to fight you over those – and I did not.

    Citing Strom Thurmond was fine. Then in a very disappointing move, you minimized what Byrd did – march with a group of people specifically designed to disparage African Americans while claiming Strom Thurmond to be worse.

    Strom Thurmond – as a southern Dem – had voiced opinion to segregate. That was wrong, we agree.

    Strom Thurmond as a Republican backed Barry Goldwater, a Republican with liberal social views – he then supported extending the voting rights Act, then supported recognizing Martin Luther King’s b-day as a holiday, then was the first Senator to appoint a black aide.

    Apparently, he had a change of heart with regard to race. That change of heart; to me, seems to coincide with his conversion to the Republican party.

    Now, if you cannot recognize when someone makles a change for the better – as he did – and continue to disparage them in the name of “Republican” because it is convenient, while you simultaneously excuse Byrd and understate anything Hannity had to say about him when he actually did belong to a group that demonized blacks, then Tom – that is sad.

    Just because Byrd is a Democrat is the reason you minimize it and just because Thurmond became a Republican is why you overstate it.

    THIS is why I do not take you seriously when you claim to be a libertarian. THIS is why it’s funny to shoot invective your way – because you always factually do something that substantiates it.

    Plus, I know the GALLUP polls really pissed you off…..

    Big deal! Let’s just see what happens Tuesday now – but the fact that New Jersey is this close to electing a conservative after years of electing liberals – EVEN IF Corzine wins with a tiny margin – speaks volumes for the change of heart Americans are having.

    You really should take that seriously. It’s not made up and it’s not tainted to serve my agenda in any way. It is a reality.

  43. “No, I am excellent multi-tasker. Today I debated you, raked up every leaf in my yard (which are still burning in the pit out front), planted 100 tulip bulbs, had dinner, and just caught up with a long distance buddy on the phone.”

    The fact that you listed all that is really, really, really sad…

    “What was outdated were these alleged poll discussions we had – and you kept citing them in an effort to ditch my moderate response to your current polls you were listing. It’s as if you wanted me to fight you over those – and I did not.”

    What? So your justifying your double-standard based on the fact that it’s based on something you said in the past…. yea.. real logical lol So polls only USED to be the result of 12-year-olds answering the phones and NOW they’re legit! LOL You’re too easy Steve!

    Your discontent with your precious Gallup poll is showing stronger than ever. You can’t trust your immature obsession with believing in a conservative country so you dodge everything I’ve had to say about it.

    I’m a Democrat because of the inherent childlike attitude of what I can see in the modern GOP, obsessed with Reagan , clinging to funny “polls”, fixated on words like “conservative” and “Democrat party”. Half of your strategy is middle school condescending epithets because, and I’ll say it again, YOU HAVE NO ARGUMENT.

    Republicans are picking up steam because they were beaten so bad. The Dems would have won too in Bush’s first midterm if not for 911, which, as national tragedy, benefited the incumbent party.

    You’re the only one having a hissy fit because you’re insecure with your adorable “polls” and STILL refuse to talk about MY points I made against it. Once again, Gallup is irrelevant here. Anyone who isn’t blinded by partisanship can see that a poll asking for label preferences is total bologna. You my friend, are not one of those people…

  44. “The fact that you listed all that is really, really, really sad…”

    The fact that you say “really, really, really” is what’s sad. Plus it supports my point about your immaturity.

    “So polls only USED to be the result of 12-year-olds answering the phones and NOW they’re legit! LOL You’re too easy Steve!”

    I would like to change my answer. I no longer blame 12-year olds for answering the phones in previous polls – I blame adults for answering the phones that say “really, really, really.” There, you won one!

    “Your discontent with your precious Gallup poll is showing stronger than ever. You can’t trust your immature obsession with believing in a conservative country so you dodge everything I’ve had to say about it.”

    My discontent equals your extreme frustration – that alone makes it a gem.

    Notice how you have yet to comment on what’s happening now? Not one argument on the fact that Obama’s in NJ trying to get Corzine’s numbers up….nothing to refute the fact that NY23, Sarah Palin’s endorsement of conservative third party candidate Doug Hoffman putting him in the lead, that Virginia’s 12 point lead over the liberal only confirms what the GALLUP poll says.

    “YOU HAVE NO ARGUMENT.”

    As proven by my previous paragraph, you simply continue to ignore the facts of my argument. But, if it makes you sleep better tonight, keep telling yourself that.

    “Republicans are picking up steam because they were beaten so bad.”

    They were “beaten so bad” because we weren’t running any conservatives, and now with a new surge of conservatism, they are re-gaining after America has been controlled for less than one year under the fastest declining President since 1953 in the name of liberalism. Even if this weren’t the case, Republicans won everything for 12 years until 2006 when liberals couldn’t even win the same amount of seats Republicans did in 1994. So, you’re saying all Republicans have to endure is one Congressional defeat and one Presidential defeat….only two years altogether? Wow, liberalism really IS a dying party. Say, I know of a GALLUP poll that confirms that….did you hear about it?

    “STILL refuse to talk about MY points I made against it.”

    That’s because your “points” were not substantial. They still aren’t. Mine are and are based on current events.

    “Oh, and you can deny the southern strategy all you want. It doesn’t do you any good”

    If the best evidence you have of that is Strom Thurmond who actually changed his ways while excusing Robert Byrd who not only wanted segregation at one time, but marched with a group who demonized blacks, I must say – there must be a really, really, really much smarter liberal out there who can make a much better case.

    You are the weakest link –

    Goodbye!

  45. “Republicans won everything for 12 years until 2006 when liberals couldn’t even win the same amount of seats Republicans did in 1994. So, you’re saying all Republicans have to endure is one Congressional defeat and one Presidential defeat….only two years altogether?”

    They won “everything” minus a presidential election and the popular vote in 2000(seriously! Despite EVERY advantage Bush had: history, the media and an uncharismatic opponent, Americans STILL chose Gore over him and that’s not even counting the votes siphoned off by Nader! lol)

    Oh! Make that TWO congressional victories(I’m not letting you forget 2008 😉

    Oh, and that 1994 “revolution” was pretty sad given they’ve been a minority in congress for a whole half-century! LOL (Oh that’s gonna cut away from your sleep 😉

    My polls were silly to you because they made you mad Steve. I simply cited that a majority of Americans reported it was wrong to have overthrown Saddam and that Clinton was the most popular outgoing president ever but THAT’S when you start to quote the word “polls” in condescending quotation marks and roll out your “common sense” like a spoiled kid who can’t accept when he’s been beaten in a game of checkers.

    If you’re going to believe polls now, you can’t be selective. You can scream to the rooftoop about “common sense” if it makes you sleep any better but know that the universe doesn’t bend for your comfort and the polls that get under your skin don’t become less true in proportion to how many times you stomp your feet over them.

    Don’t you see Steve? I’m not working against you here. I’m trying to help you out of your obsessive denial of what you don’t like to hear! We can work through this together Steve. I’ll send you some hot chocolate in the mail if you like 😉

    Since you started using Wikipedia as a reliable source, I shall take the same liberty in teaching you a basic history lesson

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy

    If you don’t trust that then go to your local high school and borrow a history textbook. I don’t need any “proof”. This is common knowledge. Although you probably just blocked it out of your head by violently beating yourself on the skull with it.

    I’m helping you Steve. If only you could just accept it….

  46. “Oh, and that 1994 “revolution” was pretty sad given they’ve been a minority in congress for a whole half-century!”

    Ha…..but according to you, half of that half-a-century’s Congress were racist Democrats from the south. So, by your own estimation, you’re taking credit for half a century when most of that time was filled up with the same alleged racist people that you are taking credit for now?

    Were they racist? Or were they Democrats that kept Republicans out of office based on the ideology then, or the ideology now?

    You cannot have it both ways….you see how easy it is to make you look like a boob!?

    “My polls were silly to you because they made you mad Steve.”

    Look at my last response, I think I’m having more fun than you’d ever know.

    “majority of Americans reported it was wrong to have overthrown Saddam”

    The polls didn’t always say that….they shifted. The day he was executed, even liberals in NYC were celebrating it. And as for the war polls, those were always misleading questions:

    For example:

    “Do you support bringing the troops home?”

    Duh! Don’t we all? But miraculously, the questions never quite asked Americans what the desideratum was on it. After what? What should be the benchmarks?

    Laughably, you bring these up now while your Democrat-Messiah still has troops in Iraq and Afghanistan, and look how principled you are! On here fighting with me because the country’s shifting back to conservatism – and you’re crying about it – while your own President has made you look silly.

    TOM, HE’S THE PRESIDENT….YOUR POLLS ARE IRRELEVANT NOW. If you really believe in the substance of those polls, why aren’t you on his ass?

    Tom, I’ve always known of the southern strategy. But it does not hold water with proving that Republicans are racist…ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU TOUT THAT DEMOCRATS WON EVERYTHING FOR 50 YEARS!

    You know in Algebra, when one negative cancels out a positive, it becomes ZERO=Tom’s argument. For the point you made about Democrats winning for 50 years, you cancel it out by proclaiming that more than half of them kept winning because they were racist.

    Tom, grow up. Please, give the help to yourself. You’re now in way over your head.

  47. Good point actually. Congratulations you’ve actually managed to produce a worthwhile response 🙂

    I’ll have to find someone else to give the pancakes to…

  48. “One of my friends sent me this. The Obama is more Bush like than people will admit:”

    I just read this, and I was stunned at the ignorance of John’s friend, and felt compelled to point out the hypocrisy of the allegations of hypocrisy. Let’s take a stroll, shall we?

    “If George W. Bush had been the first President to need a teleprompter installed to be able to get through a press conference, would you have laughed and said this is more proof of how inept he is on his own and is really controlled by smarter men behind the scenes?”

    First, I love how cons pretend that President Obama invented the teleprompter. I’ve got news: he didn’t. More shocking news: Bush, like the seven or eight presidents before him, also made use of a teleprompter. I know it may rattle some of you to find out that despite having words in plain English right in front of him, he still managed to badly mispronounce many of them on a regular basis. He also had an insipid penchant for nicknaming everyone in the room to avoid engaging in substantive conversation.

    “If George W. Bush had spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to take Laura Bush to a play in NYC, would you have approved?”

    He was paid thousands of dollars by taxpayers to, and wasted countless hours clearing brush in Crawford, and no con saw a problem with it.

    “If George W. Bush had reduced your retirement plan’s holdings of GM stock by 90% and given the unions a majority stake in GM, would you have approved?”

    Again, no one complained when he and Cheney let Enron operate with impunity to rip off the people of California, thereby putting the state in a financial crunch and reducing the pensions of thousands to nothing. Did you guys utter a word of disapproval?

    “If George W. Bush had made a joke at the expense of the Special Olympics, would you have approved?”

    Sure, but only because it would have been self deprecating humor. But, not one con said boo when he asked a reporter he knew to be blind to remove his shades during a press conference in the Rose Garden.

    “If George W. Bush had given Gordon Brown a set of inexpensive and incorrectly formatted DVDs, when Gordon Brown had given him a thoughtful and historically significant gift, would you have approved?”

    Who knows? If Obama had given a creepy back rub to Angela Merkel, would you keep quiet? Didn’t think so…

    “If George W. Bush had bowed to the King of Saudi Arabia , would you have approved?”

    If it was in lieu of making out with him (which he did), I’d be stoked.

    “If George W. Bush had visited Austria and made reference to the non-existent “Austrian language,” would you have brushed it off as a minor slip?”

    No, but only because of the long standing habit he had of saying idiotic things on a regular basis. Now if you’ll excuse me, I’ve got to go put food on my family, preferably fish, as a demonstration that man cannot coexist peacefully with them.

    “If George W. Bush had filled his cabinet and circle of advisers with people who cannot seem to keep current in their income taxes, would you have approved?”

    That’s an awesome question. Here’s a better one: If Obama had instead filled his cabinet with convicted criminals from the Reagan Administration (the one that bears the title of ‘Administration with the most convicted criminals of any Administration in history’), would you have approved? Hell, you’d jump for joy.

    “If George W. Bush had been so Spanish illiterate as to refer to “Cinco de Cuatro” in front of the Mexican ambassador when it was the 5th of May (Cinco de Mayo), and continued to flub it when he tried again, would you have winced in embarrassment?”

    Yes, but in fairness, this would have come after he met with Mexico’s emperor, Fidel Castro…

    “If George W. Bush had mis-spelled the word “advice” would you have hammered him for it for years like Dan Quayle and potatoe as proof of what a dunce he is?”

    Misspelling words would actually be a step up from outright creating words. Misunderestimate, really?

    “If George W. Bush had burned 9,000 gallons of jet fuel to go plant a single tree on Earth Day, would you have concluded he’s a hypocrite?”

    No, I’d conclude the opposite. See, he’d merely be adhering to the rules laid out by his “Clear Skies Initiative”, which would allow more pollution to enter the Earth’s atmosphere.

    “If George W. Bush had failed to send relief aid to flood victims throughout the Midwest with more people killed or made homeless than in New Orleans, would you want it made into a major ongoing political issue with claims of racism and incompetence?”

    Oh, this isn’t even a hypothetical. He already covered that base, remember?

    “If George W. Bush had created the position of 32 Czars who report directly to him, bypassing the House and Senate on much of what is happening in America, would you have approved.”

    Apparently, we did approve when he did just that:

    http://www.democrats.org/a/2009/09/the_bush_czars.php

    http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=wish_upon_a_czar

    http://firedoglake.com/2009/07/30/eric-cantor-all-of-george-w-bush%25e2%2580%2599s-%25e2%2580%2598czars%25e2%2580%2599-were-totally-fine-but-obama%25e2%2580%2599s-really-piss-me-off/

    And, I’m no mathematician, but I’m pretty sure 47 is more than 32…

    “If George W. Bush had proposed to double the national debt, which had taken more than two centuries to accumulate, in one year, would you have approved?”

    Um, one, I’m not quite sure this guy knows the difference between the national debt and the federal budget deficit, but George W. Bush came into office when there was a $5.7 trillion national debt, and when he left, the debt ceiling had been raised to $11.2 trillion. Again, not a mathematician, but that’s five and a half trillion, which is almost doubling it. Under Obama, the national debt is at $12 trillion and counting. That’s an $800 billion difference, not a doubling.

    Isn’t learning fun?

    “So, tell me again, what is it about Obama that makes him so brilliant and impressive? Can’t think of anything?”

    Well, you know all those qualities that Bush had that made America hated and saw him leave office with the highest disapproval rating of any president in history? Obama’s got the exact opposite qualities.

    Let’s see if that goes viral…

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