There is a prominent Arizona State Senate Democrat whose Facebook page I am on. The only reason is because we agree on repealing DADT (that and I do love a good challenge to my own beliefs once in a while – sticking to your own kind all the time gets boring quickly). Once in a while, I get into “debates” (if you can call them that) with her hard-left followers. This weekend she posted a link to an op-ed written by the Republican majority leader where he attacked her fiscal suggestions. Click here to read the entire exchange.
I will not post the link because I refuse to acknowledge anything on that website after their posting of two stories that should never have been publicized. The issue with this post wasn’t what she wrote – it was what came up in conversation later (language warning):
Ray Bradford: Thank you, Mark, for an impressive post. And what an impressive set of lies and misdeeds by Brewer. And conservatives voted for this lying whore?
Mel Maguire: Ray, call her a liar all you want. Hell, I’ll even agree with you. You are, however, a complete dickhead for calling any woman a whore.
RB: Really, Mel? In my estimation, any person who trades his or her ethics, standards, and/or ideals for money and power may be called a whore. It is not of any concern to me if you agree, Mel. But I appreciate your willingness to proffer your opinion.
MM: My opinion is that it’s misogynistic. The one thing that irks me about both sides in the political debate is the name-calling and finger-pointing without substantial argument.
RB: Mel, I find it disturbing that a person cannot call a woman a whore without being labeled a misogynist. If I were a woman would I be so labeled? I would apply this label equally to a man. And as for substantial argument, I thought Mark’s post above gave all the argument required on this subject. Did I miss something? Do you have something to actually add? Or are you just pissing on men who use words you don’t like tonight? And by the way, is it ok to call me a dickhead? Is that hateful, too?
Then, another guy inserted himself into the conversation…here’s where the stupidity really kicked into high gear:
Paul Rubi: Jan Brewer is beyon a whore! Liberals do mind when a woman is called a whore–when it’s underserving. In this case, not only has Jan Brewer opened herself up to the likes of Russell Pearce, she has turned around and allow the whole state to be raped. There’s another word I’d like to call her, but I won’t! But I won’t! Although she is despicable, a hypocrite, a liar and has cheated the people of Arizona, I won’t say what she really is and that is beyond whore. To be kind: let’s just she is despicable and worst kind of American; she is a traitor to everything decent that is American and so are the people who follow her political beliefs.
MM: Ray, you sound exactly like every other liberal I’ve met. I can’t speak English properly. I’m a troll. I can’t debate. I have no substance. I’m not a nice person. I’m rude and obnoxious. You, like all the others, don’t know who I am. All you know is that you don’t like my opinions or my arguments, so you’re going to label me exactly the same way some extreme right-wingers do without actually knowing the first thing about me. If anyone is bitter here, it’s YOU. (Note here that I was talking to Ray, not Paul…)
PR: You sound like every pig-headed, self-righteous conservative I´ve ever met, and I DO speak and write proper English AND speak Spanish. Your typical of the narrow-minded, low-minded conservatives who are the ruination of America. You should be ASHAMED to call yourself conservative! Liberals are what gave form and freedom to the United States of America…otherwise we would all be British subjects!
MM: Paul, I don’t think you quite understood my point. I named things that people on this very board have told ME.
You are passing judgment on a handful of comments made on one subject. I refuse to be ashamed of my political beliefs. You are typical of every liberal I’ve ever talked to – I have never, not once in my life, talked to a liberal who was civil and debated without name-calling and other insults. I have never received an ounce of respect from any liberal. Ever. Not only have I been told that I can’t speak English, I’m a troll, I can’t debate, I’m not nice, and I’m rude, I’ve been called a deviant for being a lesbian conservative – which is the exact same thing that gay liberals get pissed at conservative Christians for labeling them.
Liberalism has a limit, Paul. It wasn’t liberalism that freed us from the British Crown; it was the belief in freedom. That’s not a liberal concept these days, particularly with those who believe the government should be expanded to have more power over telling us that we are required to buy health insurance and that making more money means you have to give three times as much as everyone else. Those are not the liberal concepts that founded this nation.
What is ruining this country are those who believe that the government should have control over every aspect of our lives. Allowing free-flowing illegal immigration will also aid in our downfall. Not having the balls to stand up to terrorists is killing us. Call me low-minded all you want (whatever the hell that means), but I base my beliefs on logic – not emotion.
PR: No, Sir. You are completely wrong. THE ONLY reason I wrote what I did was to show you what you sound like. You have the freedom and the right to believe whatever you wish, because we–still–live in a democracy. However, let me make it very clear, I, and others, vehemently oppose your politics, as is OUR RIGHT. And you name call us by stomping your feet (in writing) like some two-year old brat because we don’t view or experience the world as you do. As for limits to Liberalism–what an overtly STUPID and THOUGHTLESS remark! It’s hysterical! THERE ARE LIMITS TO CONSERVATISM! Your brand of politics has almost brought this country to its economic knees and Conservatives refuse to accept responsibility for the despicable economic and political mess this country is in by electing George W. Bush, not once but twice! Whether or not you are a troll is not my concern. Even your rudeness is not my concern. However, you politics are my concern because your voting can affect me and thousands of other Americans–and your politics and that of the Republican Party are self-serving, elitist, spiteful and exclusive. As for you being a Lesbian–NO BIG DEAL! As I am a gay, Hispanic male, I’ve got a corner on living with bigotry and racism. So, don’t even go there with me because you would lose. And as for your remark about Liberalism not freeing us from the British Crown, you better go back and read about the Age of Enlightenment. Yes, Liberals LOVE Freedom! Why do you think we are so adamant about ensuring that ALL Americans have equal access to the opportunities and benefits of being American. You are only showing your ignorance–like MOST Americans you are misinformed and you live in ignorance and fear. YOU, as Lesbanian, have benefitted from the Civil Rights Era marches and protests. You wouldn’t have been able to even declare that you are a Lesbian 30 or 40 years ago had it not been for John F. Kennedy, Robert F. Kennedy, Martin Luther King and Cesar Chavez. I know because I was there and I saw the world change before my eyes. You wouldn’t have dared to openly call yourself a Lesbian before the Stone Wall Riots in New York. So, you should get down on your knees and the the Good Lord above that LIBERALS have given you the freedoms you enjoy today. And by the way, the terrorist threat is not from Al-Quaeda. The threat is internal, and comes from the Republican Party Convservatives that are the terrorists dismantling our Constitution and Civil Liberties. Rupert Murdoch is censor and does not allow Freedom of the Press. Boehner, the expected Speaker of the House, can’t wait to start repealing laws that protect you as a Lesbian or any minority. He is a “White” Anglo Saxon Good Old Boy to the core and they will stop and nothing to retain and gain power at your expense. Get a grip. The hand-writing is on the wall. And your own political beliefs will doom you and this country. As being called a fool, perhaps you need to stop point your fingers and crying like a baby because people call you names. Political debates are about the, often, passionate debate about critical human issues. You fail to understand that YOU reap what you sow. GROW UP!
MM: No, MA’AM. I specifically said I was a lesbian more than once, don’t call me SIR. I am not transgendered and I like being a woman. You must be kidding me with your tripe about not being able to declare myself a lesbian 30 years ago…I’m 32 and I wasn’t able to declare my orientation until I was 24. Even then, it still wasn’t popular. Don’t you dare insinuate that I don’t know what it’s like to experience hatred and bigotry. The culture I grew up in, a very strict religious one, had me so convinced that being gay was a spiritually damnable offense that I tried to kill myself and believed I had justification from scripture to do so. I put the gun to my head and pulled the trigger – but my weapon did not fire. A year later, after I’d moved on with my life and come out of the closet, a guy I went to church with threatened to kill me when he thought he caught me staring at his girlfriend. Don’t you fucking dare tell me I don’t know what it’s like.
Stupid and thoughtless remark? Again, you missed the point. Yes, there needs to be a limit to liberalism – just as there needs to be a limit to the conservative moments we reach. Going too far to the left would be just as dangerous as going too far to the right, and if you had two brain cells left to rub together, you would have understood that what I said was we cannot afford to go too far to the left.
You post this unhinged rant void of any real substance and you tell me that I’m the one who needs to get a grip and grow up? Go to hell. Not once in this entire conversation had I called anyone a single name. I remained civil throughout. You are the embodiment of my argument that liberals are completely incapable of having a civil discussion without name-calling and emotional outbursts.
PR: SIR was a figure of speech. Get over yourself. You’re becoming boring. Until you can have an objective conversation and use the intellect gave you…we are done! No wonder people call you names! You’re completely insane!
MM: Objective? Paul, you haven’t made a single objective comment in this entire thread. Every word you have typed has been hyper-emotional and insulting. When was the last time you were civil with a person who disagreed with you? That is all I’ve done – disagree on something someone else said. Where in any of this have I agreed with Jan Brewer? Have I not said multiple times that I AGREE THAT SHE IS A LIAR? You’re not debating anything. You simply hate me because I admit to being a conservative.
Gay liberals like you are the reason I tell people that coming out of the closet to my family and friends was far easier than it was to come out as conservative to my fellow gays and lesbians. You don’t know what you’re arguing about at this point…you’re hysterical because you know I’m not a bleeding-heart liberal like you, and you simply cannot wrap your brain around that concept.
Get back to me when you cool off.
PR: Listen: you’re insulting and incapable of having a conversation. I made my points and they have completely gone over your head. Your conversations are seemingly those of an insecure, wounded-animal that attacks everyone who doesn’t share your world view. I pit you. We are done with this conversation until you mature emontionally and intellectually.
Yes, it is true – I did more than just attempt suicide. The only reason I’m not dead today, the reason I’m writing this missive now, is because God saw fit to let me live and the round chambered in my handgun did not fire eight years ago. I have never, until today, disclosed that fact to anyone but my therapist and it is not easy to do so, but I figure that maybe if a few more gay liberals understand that I really didn’t have an easy time of it they might give a damn about the fact that I do not reach my views lightly, nor do I allow my emotion to dictate my politics. My emotions have failed me many times in my life, including the day I tried to shoot myself.
This is just one more illustration of the amazing lack of intelligence and respect among gay liberals who seem to think that they are right and everyone else is completely wrong. It’s perfectly okay to engage in name-calling, insults and childish fits as long as you’re liberal and fighting the good fight. Who cares if you don’t have a single coherent, substantial argument? You’re right and everybody else is wrong. Hold your head up high and make sure to tell the world that your dick is bigger than everyone else’s.